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Why are these "promises" not drawn up as contracts, so the city can sue when they aren't met? Edit: > Under these so-called enterprise zone agreements, delinq

by _bxg1 6y ago

Why are these "promises" not drawn up as contracts, so the city can sue when they aren't met? Edit: > Under these so-called enterprise zone agreements, delinquent companies can face penalties, including repayment of taxes and the termination of incentives. But in Youngstown, they rarely do. Officials have canceled 25 agreements over the past three decades, usually the result of the business closing, relocating or failing to move forward with a project. Records indicate that the city sought back taxes from an errant firm on just one occasion, although it’s unclear if authorities ever collected; city officials did not respond to questions on the matter. As a result, dozens of private businesses have profited from public subsidies in a city that can scarcely afford them. Unclear what the reason is Edit 2: > Now, Youngstown’s approach to economic development is coming under greater scrutiny as the city’s former finance director and a prominent developer prepare to face trial on public corruption charges. At the heart of the case are allegations that officials steered taxpayer funds to favored projects in exchange for bribes. Ah. Yep.

function_seven 6y ago
They are. But then the city just ignores the "stick" half of the carrot/stick framework. Or they "lose" the contract[0]. Or they lost the sophistication war with the company's lawyers, and get loop-holed out of their penalties. It's all very slimy or amateurish, depending on how charitable you want to be towards the principals involved. What strikes me the most from this article: > A consumer twists a knob at the bottom of a can and activates a cooling apparatus. In about 90 seconds, the beverage temperature drops about 30 degrees. That's it? 30°F? So if my can is at 90°F, and I'd like a cold one, I can wait a minute and a half and get a lukewarm 60° beverage. I mean, that's kinda cool maybe, but I can't imagine it's worth whatever this costs. [0] "In response to public records requests, Youngstown provided cost projections for just 30 of the 94 agreements it granted since 1991, saying it could not locate many of the early contracts."
- kube-system 6y ago
  A 30 degree drop sounds completely reasonable of a use case. That takes a can from room temp to an acceptable refrigerator temp.
  - function_seven 6y ago
    But these are sold for outdoor use, like at the beach, or hiking, etc. If my can is room temperature, the I am very likely indoors already, with a refrigerator nearby. I'm not going to spend money on single-use chiller cans for typical day-to-day beverages. I'll just buy the normal ones and stick 'em in the fridge. Sure, there's some scenario where I might find myself in a temperate climate, and want a cold drink, and don't have an ice chest or fridge nearby. But does that happen often enough to make this technology viable? I just don't see it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
heymijo 6y ago
> Now, Youngstown’s approach to economic development is coming under greater scrutiny as the city’s former finance director and a prominent developer prepare to face trial on public corruption charges. At the heart of the case are allegations that officials steered taxpayer funds to favored projects in exchange for bribes. Corruption runs deep in Youngstown. Search for "Youngstown corruption" and you'll get a grab bag of "mob/mafia/politicians/FBI" from any decade post-WWII to present. FTA: > Among the offenders are Enviva Materials, a tire recycling operation; Industrial Waste Control, a pressure-washing and waste handling business; and Domestic Linen Co., a uniform laundry and rental operation. All received 10-year tax abatements without creating a single new job or substantially missing their employment targets. Some firms, like Allied Consolidated Industries Inc., a steel erecting and dismantling company, received back-to-back incentive packages, even after reneging on their initial agreement. I think corruption is Occam's Razor here. Source: grew up in Cleveland reading about Youngstown's corruption and watching clowns like former Congressman James Trafficant [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traficant#Trial_and_expulsion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traficant#Trial_and_expu...
nikanj 6y ago
Because a town that desolate can’t attract top talent. Desperate town trying desperate things is a great target for opportunists, especially if the city leadership is somewhat unskilled and easily fooled

by _bxg1 6y ago

function_seven 6y ago

They are. But then the city just ignores the "stick" half of the carrot/stick framework. Or they "lose" the contract[0]. Or they lost the sophistication war with the company's lawyers, and get loop-holed out of their penalties. It's all very slimy or amateurish, depending on how charitable you want to be towards the principals involved. What strikes me the most from this article: > A consumer twists a knob at the bottom of a can and activates a cooling apparatus. In about 90 seconds, the beverage temperature drops about 30 degrees. That's it? 30°F? So if my can is at 90°F, and I'd like a cold one, I can wait a minute and a half and get a lukewarm 60° beverage. I mean, that's kinda cool maybe, but I can't imagine it's worth whatever this costs. [0] "In response to public records requests, Youngstown provided cost projections for just 30 of the 94 agreements it granted since 1991, saying it could not locate many of the early contracts."

kube-system 6y ago
A 30 degree drop sounds completely reasonable of a use case. That takes a can from room temp to an acceptable refrigerator temp.
- function_seven 6y ago
  But these are sold for outdoor use, like at the beach, or hiking, etc. If my can is room temperature, the I am very likely indoors already, with a refrigerator nearby. I'm not going to spend money on single-use chiller cans for typical day-to-day beverages. I'll just buy the normal ones and stick 'em in the fridge. Sure, there's some scenario where I might find myself in a temperate climate, and want a cold drink, and don't have an ice chest or fridge nearby. But does that happen often enough to make this technology viable? I just don't see it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

heymijo 6y ago

> Now, Youngstown’s approach to economic development is coming under greater scrutiny as the city’s former finance director and a prominent developer prepare to face trial on public corruption charges. At the heart of the case are allegations that officials steered taxpayer funds to favored projects in exchange for bribes. Corruption runs deep in Youngstown. Search for "Youngstown corruption" and you'll get a grab bag of "mob/mafia/politicians/FBI" from any decade post-WWII to present. FTA: > Among the offenders are Enviva Materials, a tire recycling operation; Industrial Waste Control, a pressure-washing and waste handling business; and Domestic Linen Co., a uniform laundry and rental operation. All received 10-year tax abatements without creating a single new job or substantially missing their employment targets. Some firms, like Allied Consolidated Industries Inc., a steel erecting and dismantling company, received back-to-back incentive packages, even after reneging on their initial agreement. I think corruption is Occam's Razor here. Source: grew up in Cleveland reading about Youngstown's corruption and watching clowns like former Congressman James Trafficant [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traficant#Trial_and_expulsion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traficant#Trial_and_expu...

nikanj 6y ago

Because a town that desolate can’t attract top talent. Desperate town trying desperate things is a great target for opportunists, especially if the city leadership is somewhat unskilled and easily fooled