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While I generally support these efforts, I have feeling it would be easier to engineer a way to escape these meat bag prisons we live in, and construct an andro

While I generally support these efforts, I have feeling it would be easier to engineer a way to escape these meat bag prisons we live in, and construct an android body that isn't built from the worst form of spaghetti DNA code imaginable.

Valgrim 7y ago
This meat bag is made from star dust, self-assembling from a single microscopic machine, into a form so complex that it's complexity, adaptability and computing power dwarves by several orders of magnitude all the machines and computers we have built or will build in the foreseeable future, combined. And billions of them exist, doing things like inventing imaginary worlds, loving each others, gardening and playing soccer. And they work only with a bit of water and food. We'll get some sort of usable artificial intelligence (meaning robot slaves and autonomous rovers) at some point, but I think it's a mistake to underestimate human intelligence.
- rantwasp 7y ago
  it depends. in the next 10 years, no. next 100 years, probably no. but if you have thousands or millions of years ahead I think artificial intelligence is going to become a thing. also we'll drop the artificial and call it what it is going to be: intelligence.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  This is not a logical comment. Everything is made of stardust - including the androids we'd construct. ...and while "complexity" is one word for our DNA - another more accurate term would be "complete fucking mess of code". It breaks frequently, is nearly impossible to model and predict, and can only be modified with agonizing inaccurate testing. Your only reasonable argument here is that computing power isn't up to snuff. That's true - but that argument is rapidly dwindling.
  - virgilp 7y ago
    > another more accurate term would be "complete fucking mess of code" That just tells me you didn't write it, but I guess I already suspected that.
  - Valgrim 7y ago
    Maybe it seems like a "complete fucking mess of code" because it's not code at all! See https://phys.org/news/2020-04-dna-life-bookjust-jumbled-ingredients.html https://phys.org/news/2020-04-dna-life-bookjust-jumbled-ingr... Also relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1605/ https://xkcd.com/1605/
    - koheripbal 7y ago
      The first link is essentially a description of epigenetics - which I'm not arguing against. It's "part of the mess". The second link is funny, but not an accurate comparison because when decompiled/deobfuscated, the google.com page resolves to well structured code. The human genome does not - there are interdependencies that have no logical purpose - pure happenstance. ...but that's not really my point anyway. My point is simply that it would be easier to build a better system from scratch. It might not be able to self-replicate from a single unit in the wild, but that no longer needs to be a requirement for us as a species.
      - Valgrim 7y ago
        Maybe it would be easier, maybe not. My point is that we don't understand how the brain, intelligence, consciousness and emotions works. We try really hard to, in many different ways, and it's anything but easy. Every time artificial intelligence gets popular, we get the impression that we are on the grasp of understanding it, until we hit a wall. I'm pretty sure the robots we send on other planets or around other stars will be very capable, but I don't think we can just reinvent our humanity from scratch.
indy 7y ago
The eternal struggle between "rewrite it from scratch" and "build upon legacy code"
- koheripbal 7y ago
  In this case, we're trying to build upon compiled assembly code that's been re-obfuscated every generation. I'm not even kidding. Almost every protein in the human body has multiple unrelated functions, just because evolution says "hey, this is here, let's use it for something new". Every new human is an experiment in code chaos.
  - tasty_freeze 7y ago
    > Almost every protein in the human body has multiple unrelated functions That is why the phrase "DNA is the blueprint of the cell" is terrible. In a blueprint, one can move a door 6" to the right without affecting the rest of the structure, add or remove a window, etc.
rantwasp 7y ago
it is not easier. you cannot engineer what you don't understand. for all the progress that has been made there is still a lot we don't know about how life works in general. not to mention the ethical can of worms this opens.

Valgrim 7y ago

This meat bag is made from star dust, self-assembling from a single microscopic machine, into a form so complex that it's complexity, adaptability and computing power dwarves by several orders of magnitude all the machines and computers we have built or will build in the foreseeable future, combined. And billions of them exist, doing things like inventing imaginary worlds, loving each others, gardening and playing soccer. And they work only with a bit of water and food. We'll get some sort of usable artificial intelligence (meaning robot slaves and autonomous rovers) at some point, but I think it's a mistake to underestimate human intelligence.

rantwasp 7y ago
it depends. in the next 10 years, no. next 100 years, probably no. but if you have thousands or millions of years ahead I think artificial intelligence is going to become a thing. also we'll drop the artificial and call it what it is going to be: intelligence.
koheripbal 7y ago
This is not a logical comment. Everything is made of stardust - including the androids we'd construct. ...and while "complexity" is one word for our DNA - another more accurate term would be "complete fucking mess of code". It breaks frequently, is nearly impossible to model and predict, and can only be modified with agonizing inaccurate testing. Your only reasonable argument here is that computing power isn't up to snuff. That's true - but that argument is rapidly dwindling.
- virgilp 7y ago
  > another more accurate term would be "complete fucking mess of code" That just tells me you didn't write it, but I guess I already suspected that.
- Valgrim 7y ago
  Maybe it seems like a "complete fucking mess of code" because it's not code at all! See https://phys.org/news/2020-04-dna-life-bookjust-jumbled-ingredients.html https://phys.org/news/2020-04-dna-life-bookjust-jumbled-ingr... Also relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1605/ https://xkcd.com/1605/
  - koheripbal 7y ago
    The first link is essentially a description of epigenetics - which I'm not arguing against. It's "part of the mess". The second link is funny, but not an accurate comparison because when decompiled/deobfuscated, the google.com page resolves to well structured code. The human genome does not - there are interdependencies that have no logical purpose - pure happenstance. ...but that's not really my point anyway. My point is simply that it would be easier to build a better system from scratch. It might not be able to self-replicate from a single unit in the wild, but that no longer needs to be a requirement for us as a species.
    - Valgrim 7y ago
      Maybe it would be easier, maybe not. My point is that we don't understand how the brain, intelligence, consciousness and emotions works. We try really hard to, in many different ways, and it's anything but easy. Every time artificial intelligence gets popular, we get the impression that we are on the grasp of understanding it, until we hit a wall. I'm pretty sure the robots we send on other planets or around other stars will be very capable, but I don't think we can just reinvent our humanity from scratch.

indy 7y ago

The eternal struggle between "rewrite it from scratch" and "build upon legacy code"

koheripbal 7y ago
In this case, we're trying to build upon compiled assembly code that's been re-obfuscated every generation. I'm not even kidding. Almost every protein in the human body has multiple unrelated functions, just because evolution says "hey, this is here, let's use it for something new". Every new human is an experiment in code chaos.
- tasty_freeze 7y ago
  > Almost every protein in the human body has multiple unrelated functions That is why the phrase "DNA is the blueprint of the cell" is terrible. In a blueprint, one can move a door 6" to the right without affecting the rest of the structure, add or remove a window, etc.

rantwasp 7y ago

it is not easier. you cannot engineer what you don't understand. for all the progress that has been made there is still a lot we don't know about how life works in general. not to mention the ethical can of worms this opens.