6 ms·

A lot of people don’t like him not because he’s wealthy, but because the ways he used to become wealthy.

by sildur 6y ago

pstrateman 6y ago
I think outside of tech circles you will find very few people that have issue with how he became wealthy.
- butterfi 6y ago
  True, but the end still doesn't justify the means.
  - piercebot 6y ago
    Even if that means the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation wouldn't exist today? At the cost of the hundreds of millions[0] of lives they've saved? Not attacking, just starting a discussion. What if we frame this in the context of the Trolley Problem? Bill pulled the lever, and the trolley deviated from its mandated course, but now many lives have been saved as a result. Does the end still not justify the means? 0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-philanthropy-warren-buffett-vaccines-infant-mortality https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-phi...
    - vezycash 6y ago
      >Even if that means the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation wouldn't exist today? Many people don't know what the foundation means. I found out more recently when defending him against rumor mongers on a forum. The personal insults I received was immense. For one, I didn't know he's one of the largest backers of WHO (they said he's the second largest). Yet, the spun this good deed as negative. Claiming, he's manipulating WHO from under the shadows. But for me, I now know who to thank for free HIV drugs in my country cos I know my government wouldn't give free drugs under any circumstance. >About infant mortality Bill gates attackers frequently mentioned a large number of vaccine caused deaths in India. I don't have a come back against this. But I know the deaths and deformations would be worse if there were no Polio vaccines for example.
    - TravHatesMe 6y ago
      In the context of the Trolley Problem, one option is the reality of the present (X amount of lives saved due Gates' success / the foundation), the other option is unknown - it may be Y lives saved. It is possible that this alternate reality might have a better outcome than the present. Can't say with any certainty but it is tempting to guess that X > Y
TomMarius 6y ago
He was a strong armed businessman, but he was not in any way a criminal; and that's just a social bubble - people outside tech admire him, if they don't hate him with/because of the antivaxxers.
- pwinnski 6y ago
  The FTC disagreed on your second point, and convinced a district court and an appeals court also.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
There's also that little thing where he had a close association with Jeffrey Epstein after his 2007 sex trafficking conviction, and was caught lying about the timing and extent of his involvement by the New York Times. He also has close ties to the man whom Epstein named executor of his estate (who was "quick to distance himself" of course).
- claudeganon 6y ago
  And had other high-level staff overlapping with Epstein’s foundation and his own. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...
pizzapill 6y ago
As much as I like most of what he does nowadays I always wonder how many years of technological progress we lost due to Microsofts shenanigans.
- junaru 6y ago
  We are loosing more due to Google every year than we ever did with Microsoft.
  - grizzles 6y ago
    Why do you think so? Their business model? Google are vicious competitors for sure but they open source a ton of cutting edge stuff like jax & tensorflow. I would say they've did a great job at advancing the state of science & technology in the world.
    - 72deluxe 6y ago
      I always wonder about Google. I know they produce Android but if they disappeared overnight, the world would carry on working, e.g everyone would switch to using another search engine. There would be less tracking (thanks Google Analytics)! If Microsoft disappeared overnight, how many businesses (not tech businesses but real businesses, like warehouses etc. not running Macs) would need a functioning version of Windows or Win32 software to get by?? I think Microsoft has a larger effect on the world than Google by a very very large stretch. Even in development, Microsoft's products are used far more widely. How many Google development tools are people using? I've got Android Studio but my daily dev work is Visual Studio on Windows and VS Code on Mac.
  - partomniscient 6y ago
    You could also argue that due to Microsoft and the past being what it was, there is also way more to lose.
- erik_seaberg 6y ago
  Microsoft had Xenix in 1980 yet their extortion racket compelled OEMs to put MS-DOS in front of consumers through 2001 (until WinXP).
briantakita 6y ago
People are suspicious of centralization of power. You can call it whatever you want, a donation, a foundation, a cause, NGO, government, corporation; centralization of power & influence has proven to have side effects that many find undesirable... A similar perspective happened with David Rockefeller & his Rockefeller Foundation.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  Which is why it's laudable that Gates has specified that their Foundation needs to disburse all funds within some specific, limited timeframe (20 years?) after his death. Once you have amassed a three-digit billion dollars amount, giving it away in such an expedited manner is really the best you can do. It's better than some Foundation set up for eternity amassing power over time. And it's also better than the default of creating a dynasty of trust-fund babies where too much economic power meets unpredictable ambitions.
  - briantakita 6y ago
    > Which is why it's laudable that Gates has specified that their Foundation needs to disburse all funds within some specific, limited timeframe (20 years?) after his death. That is laudable. I would like to understand the details of this dispersion. For example, even if a family does not receive the inheritance, a set of institutions, with a particular network & belief system, will. Centralization of power is not just a familial phenomenon, but also pertains to institutions, beliefs, etc. The Catholic Church as an institution is an example of centralization of power & influence that transcended a single family line well over one thousand years... The Rockefeller Foundation continues to have worldwide influence well after David Rockefeller's death.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
      No, it goes further than that: The Foundation is required to spent all its funds within 20 years of Bill & Melinda's death. It will then cease to exist. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Lifespan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundatio... and https://www.gatesfoundation.org/who-we-are/general-information/financials/foundation-trust https://www.gatesfoundation.org/who-we-are/general-informati...

A lot of people don’t like him not because he’s wealthy, but because the ways he used to become wealthy.

by sildur 6y ago

A lot of people don’t like him not because he’s wealthy, but because the ways he used to become wealthy.

pstrateman 6y ago

I think outside of tech circles you will find very few people that have issue with how he became wealthy.

butterfi 6y ago
True, but the end still doesn't justify the means.
- piercebot 6y ago
  Even if that means the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation wouldn't exist today? At the cost of the hundreds of millions[0] of lives they've saved? Not attacking, just starting a discussion. What if we frame this in the context of the Trolley Problem? Bill pulled the lever, and the trolley deviated from its mandated course, but now many lives have been saved as a result. Does the end still not justify the means? 0: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-philanthropy-warren-buffett-vaccines-infant-mortality https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/bill-gates-phi...
  - vezycash 6y ago
    >Even if that means the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation wouldn't exist today? Many people don't know what the foundation means. I found out more recently when defending him against rumor mongers on a forum. The personal insults I received was immense. For one, I didn't know he's one of the largest backers of WHO (they said he's the second largest). Yet, the spun this good deed as negative. Claiming, he's manipulating WHO from under the shadows. But for me, I now know who to thank for free HIV drugs in my country cos I know my government wouldn't give free drugs under any circumstance. >About infant mortality Bill gates attackers frequently mentioned a large number of vaccine caused deaths in India. I don't have a come back against this. But I know the deaths and deformations would be worse if there were no Polio vaccines for example.
  - TravHatesMe 6y ago
    In the context of the Trolley Problem, one option is the reality of the present (X amount of lives saved due Gates' success / the foundation), the other option is unknown - it may be Y lives saved. It is possible that this alternate reality might have a better outcome than the present. Can't say with any certainty but it is tempting to guess that X > Y

TomMarius 6y ago

He was a strong armed businessman, but he was not in any way a criminal; and that's just a social bubble - people outside tech admire him, if they don't hate him with/because of the antivaxxers.

pwinnski 6y ago
The FTC disagreed on your second point, and convinced a district court and an appeals court also.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

There's also that little thing where he had a close association with Jeffrey Epstein after his 2007 sex trafficking conviction, and was caught lying about the timing and extent of his involvement by the New York Times. He also has close ties to the man whom Epstein named executor of his estate (who was "quick to distance himself" of course).

claudeganon 6y ago
And had other high-level staff overlapping with Epstein’s foundation and his own. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...

pizzapill 6y ago

As much as I like most of what he does nowadays I always wonder how many years of technological progress we lost due to Microsofts shenanigans.

junaru 6y ago
We are loosing more due to Google every year than we ever did with Microsoft.
- grizzles 6y ago
  Why do you think so? Their business model? Google are vicious competitors for sure but they open source a ton of cutting edge stuff like jax & tensorflow. I would say they've did a great job at advancing the state of science & technology in the world.
  - 72deluxe 6y ago
    I always wonder about Google. I know they produce Android but if they disappeared overnight, the world would carry on working, e.g everyone would switch to using another search engine. There would be less tracking (thanks Google Analytics)! If Microsoft disappeared overnight, how many businesses (not tech businesses but real businesses, like warehouses etc. not running Macs) would need a functioning version of Windows or Win32 software to get by?? I think Microsoft has a larger effect on the world than Google by a very very large stretch. Even in development, Microsoft's products are used far more widely. How many Google development tools are people using? I've got Android Studio but my daily dev work is Visual Studio on Windows and VS Code on Mac.
- partomniscient 6y ago
  You could also argue that due to Microsoft and the past being what it was, there is also way more to lose.
erik_seaberg 6y ago
Microsoft had Xenix in 1980 yet their extortion racket compelled OEMs to put MS-DOS in front of consumers through 2001 (until WinXP).

briantakita 6y ago

People are suspicious of centralization of power. You can call it whatever you want, a donation, a foundation, a cause, NGO, government, corporation; centralization of power & influence has proven to have side effects that many find undesirable... A similar perspective happened with David Rockefeller & his Rockefeller Foundation.

IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
Which is why it's laudable that Gates has specified that their Foundation needs to disburse all funds within some specific, limited timeframe (20 years?) after his death. Once you have amassed a three-digit billion dollars amount, giving it away in such an expedited manner is really the best you can do. It's better than some Foundation set up for eternity amassing power over time. And it's also better than the default of creating a dynasty of trust-fund babies where too much economic power meets unpredictable ambitions.
- briantakita 6y ago
  > Which is why it's laudable that Gates has specified that their Foundation needs to disburse all funds within some specific, limited timeframe (20 years?) after his death. That is laudable. I would like to understand the details of this dispersion. For example, even if a family does not receive the inheritance, a set of institutions, with a particular network & belief system, will. Centralization of power is not just a familial phenomenon, but also pertains to institutions, beliefs, etc. The Catholic Church as an institution is an example of centralization of power & influence that transcended a single family line well over one thousand years... The Rockefeller Foundation continues to have worldwide influence well after David Rockefeller's death.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
    No, it goes further than that: The Foundation is required to spent all its funds within 20 years of Bill & Melinda's death. It will then cease to exist. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Lifespan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundatio... and https://www.gatesfoundation.org/who-we-are/general-information/financials/foundation-trust https://www.gatesfoundation.org/who-we-are/general-informati...