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> telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on th

> telling someone you just should have done it differently boils down to dismissing the very real impact their race/gender/sexual orientation/whatever has on their life. Race and gender may still play a role, but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much. People have agency over their lives, and can make choices to make their situations better. The fact that someone is white or male does not negate this. I live in rural Missouri, and there are plenty of white people who make bad decisions and hurt their prospects in the process. Also, "whitesplaining" and "mansplaining" are really incredibly racist and sexist. You should really consider using other terms.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
I generally don't use those terms. I was just saying they exist for a reason. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board of HN. My gender continues to prove to be a barrier to effective networking here and I have been here nearly eleven years and between my old account and this one I have over 50k karma, which would put me fairly high on the leader board if it were under one account. I'm not acting like race or gender are "the determining factor," but my experiences in the last decade or so make it painfully clear that a factor like gender can be stubbornly hard to overcome, no matter how hard you try and all that. I made it my hobby to try to get articles to the front page of HN while I was homeless. I hit the leader board about a month after I got myself back into housing without going through some program and then I changed my handle. So for various reasons when I share my thoughts and observations on things like poverty or gender issues, some folks here are interested.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  I understand that your perspective is vastly different from most people on this site, and I do appreciate your input. Without people like you speaking up, certain issues would never be addressed. My only request is that you avoid emotional and logical amplification of reality. Using terms like mansplaining and whitesplaining, and using phrases like "And, also, if you had any sense, you would have been born a different color/different gender/richer...etc" exaggerates a bad situation, makes people in those identity groups defensive, and weakens your argument. Reality is unfair enough that just highlighting it will lead to change eventually.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Using terms like mansplaining and whitesplaining As noted above, I don't generally use those terms. You are "using" them yourself currently by including them in your comment telling me I am wrong to "use" them. There's a pandemic on and I haven't slept. I don't really care to discuss this further with you. But for the record I don't think you have any right whatsoever to "request" that I behave in accordance with your wishes while leveling BS accusations in an uncharitable reading of my comment that you refuse to back down on.
    - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
      As noted above, I don't generally use those terms. The fact that you don't generally use those terms doesn't change the fact that you used the terms in your parent comment above. I don't think you have any right whatsoever to "request" that I behave in accordance with your wishes while leveling BS accusations in an uncharitable reading of my comment You are right, it isn't the most charitable way to interpret your comment, but there are some speech patterns that tend to cause division and flamewar, if not now then later. They tend to attack or denegrate identity groups of some kind. The phrasing I keep point out is harmful because it attacks such identity groups and is damaging to the community in my opinion. That is why I keep bringing up those portions of your argument. I understand if you want to disengage, and I hope you sleep well.
moises_silva 6y ago
> but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much I did not read that at all. This is the key message IMHO: > If you are the "wrong kind of person" for some reason, misfortune comes at a much higher cost than for other people. In the US, white people generally suffer lighter consequences than people of color for the same mistakes. Men are generally judged less harshly than women for various things. Etc. More eloquently explained here: https://www.quora.com/Is-life-easier-as-a-white-person/answer/Peter-Kruger https://www.quora.com/Is-life-easier-as-a-white-person/answe... Keyword: "easier" No one is saying they don't have agency, but sometimes, having a headstart is all it takes for a big difference in results over the years, not to mention if that advantage doesn't go away your whole life. Perhaps beside the point, but also some people do not believe in 'agency' or 'free will' as such, myself included. I consider myself privileged, and I'm not white. > Also, "whitesplaining" and "mansplaining" are really incredibly racist and sexist. You should really consider using other terms. That we agree on.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

DoreenMichele 6y ago

I generally don't use those terms. I was just saying they exist for a reason. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board of HN. My gender continues to prove to be a barrier to effective networking here and I have been here nearly eleven years and between my old account and this one I have over 50k karma, which would put me fairly high on the leader board if it were under one account. I'm not acting like race or gender are "the determining factor," but my experiences in the last decade or so make it painfully clear that a factor like gender can be stubbornly hard to overcome, no matter how hard you try and all that. I made it my hobby to try to get articles to the front page of HN while I was homeless. I hit the leader board about a month after I got myself back into housing without going through some program and then I changed my handle. So for various reasons when I share my thoughts and observations on things like poverty or gender issues, some folks here are interested.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
I understand that your perspective is vastly different from most people on this site, and I do appreciate your input. Without people like you speaking up, certain issues would never be addressed. My only request is that you avoid emotional and logical amplification of reality. Using terms like mansplaining and whitesplaining, and using phrases like "And, also, if you had any sense, you would have been born a different color/different gender/richer...etc" exaggerates a bad situation, makes people in those identity groups defensive, and weakens your argument. Reality is unfair enough that just highlighting it will lead to change eventually.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Using terms like mansplaining and whitesplaining As noted above, I don't generally use those terms. You are "using" them yourself currently by including them in your comment telling me I am wrong to "use" them. There's a pandemic on and I haven't slept. I don't really care to discuss this further with you. But for the record I don't think you have any right whatsoever to "request" that I behave in accordance with your wishes while leveling BS accusations in an uncharitable reading of my comment that you refuse to back down on.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    As noted above, I don't generally use those terms. The fact that you don't generally use those terms doesn't change the fact that you used the terms in your parent comment above. I don't think you have any right whatsoever to "request" that I behave in accordance with your wishes while leveling BS accusations in an uncharitable reading of my comment You are right, it isn't the most charitable way to interpret your comment, but there are some speech patterns that tend to cause division and flamewar, if not now then later. They tend to attack or denegrate identity groups of some kind. The phrasing I keep point out is harmful because it attacks such identity groups and is damaging to the community in my opinion. That is why I keep bringing up those portions of your argument. I understand if you want to disengage, and I hope you sleep well.

moises_silva 6y ago

> but acting like it is the determining factor in one's life is too much I did not read that at all. This is the key message IMHO: > If you are the "wrong kind of person" for some reason, misfortune comes at a much higher cost than for other people. In the US, white people generally suffer lighter consequences than people of color for the same mistakes. Men are generally judged less harshly than women for various things. Etc. More eloquently explained here: https://www.quora.com/Is-life-easier-as-a-white-person/answer/Peter-Kruger https://www.quora.com/Is-life-easier-as-a-white-person/answe... Keyword: "easier" No one is saying they don't have agency, but sometimes, having a headstart is all it takes for a big difference in results over the years, not to mention if that advantage doesn't go away your whole life. Perhaps beside the point, but also some people do not believe in 'agency' or 'free will' as such, myself included. I consider myself privileged, and I'm not white. > Also, "whitesplaining" and "mansplaining" are really incredibly racist and sexist. You should really consider using other terms. That we agree on.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]