3 ms·

Where do you think money comes from? Seriously, how do you think it's created?

vixen99 6y ago
It comes from taxes, borrowing and printing. Only one of those relates to the added value otherwise known as wealth creation. The other two ultimately make everyone poorer. The question is: for a given country, what proportion of the population can theoretically be supported by the efforts of those who pay those taxes. This isn't a moral judgement on the basic income idea; it's just required prior basic arithmetic for those planning to introduce BI. Will BI actually work in the long run? I don't know.
- lm28469 6y ago
  > The question is: for a given country, what proportion of the population can theoretically be supported by the efforts of those who pay those taxes. idk, you tell me: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/08/bill-gates-jeff-bezos-warren-buffett-wealthier-than-poorest-half-of-us https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/08/bill-gates-...
  - alexilliamson 6y ago
    My summary is that if we somehow captured the entire wealth of the wealthiest three individuals, we could double the wealth of everyone in the bottom 50%.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    Wealth != income. Gates, Buffett and Bezos are worth a combined $250bn. There are about 210mm Americans over 18. So you can wipe out the entire accumulated wealth of those three and give everyone ... $1,200, one time only. Not life changing, is it?
- phaemon 6y ago
  > It comes from taxes No, taxes don't create money. Taxpayers don't print up their own notes and send them in to the government. > borrowing That's a bit vague. What kind of borrowing do you mean? > printing. Well, at least that one is right :) > Only one of those relates to the added value otherwise known as wealth creation. The other two ultimately make everyone poorer. I don't know what you mean by that. None of those relates directly to wealth creation, and they all relate to it indirectly. What did you mean by that specifically?
qwe098cube 6y ago
money is debt.
moralsupply 6y ago
Money is created through 2 processes: 1. Governments operate in debt-spending mode. So governments issue bonds (glorified IOUs) to banks, which give governments money. Banks then "sell" their bonds to the FED, at which point money is created. Banks use that money to buy more bonds, and the cycle repeats. BTW, to pay for the interest on the bonds, the government uses your taxes -- that's right, your taxes are not used to pay for pretty much anything the government does, it only pays for the debt the previous governments accumulated while debt-spending. 2. Banks receive money deposits, and lend money using those deposits, but not in a 1:1 rate. The rate varies, but, for instance, for every dollar a bank gets in deposits it can lend 10, which means that effectively banks create money. Also consider that this money created out of nowhere is redeposited, repeating the cycle, so in the end a dollar ends up making a thousand. For the record, currently the rate is 1:infinity in the US

It comes from taxes, borrowing and printing. Only one of those relates to the added value otherwise known as wealth creation. The other two ultimately make everyone poorer. The question is: for a given country, what proportion of the population can theoretically be supported by the efforts of those who pay those taxes. This isn't a moral judgement on the basic income idea; it's just required prior basic arithmetic for those planning to introduce BI. Will BI actually work in the long run? I don't know.

lm28469 6y ago
> The question is: for a given country, what proportion of the population can theoretically be supported by the efforts of those who pay those taxes. idk, you tell me: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/08/bill-gates-jeff-bezos-warren-buffett-wealthier-than-poorest-half-of-us https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/08/bill-gates-...
- alexilliamson 6y ago
  My summary is that if we somehow captured the entire wealth of the wealthiest three individuals, we could double the wealth of everyone in the bottom 50%.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  Wealth != income. Gates, Buffett and Bezos are worth a combined $250bn. There are about 210mm Americans over 18. So you can wipe out the entire accumulated wealth of those three and give everyone ... $1,200, one time only. Not life changing, is it?
phaemon 6y ago
> It comes from taxes No, taxes don't create money. Taxpayers don't print up their own notes and send them in to the government. > borrowing That's a bit vague. What kind of borrowing do you mean? > printing. Well, at least that one is right :) > Only one of those relates to the added value otherwise known as wealth creation. The other two ultimately make everyone poorer. I don't know what you mean by that. None of those relates directly to wealth creation, and they all relate to it indirectly. What did you mean by that specifically?

qwe098cube 6y ago

money is debt.

moralsupply 6y ago

Money is created through 2 processes: 1. Governments operate in debt-spending mode. So governments issue bonds (glorified IOUs) to banks, which give governments money. Banks then "sell" their bonds to the FED, at which point money is created. Banks use that money to buy more bonds, and the cycle repeats. BTW, to pay for the interest on the bonds, the government uses your taxes -- that's right, your taxes are not used to pay for pretty much anything the government does, it only pays for the debt the previous governments accumulated while debt-spending. 2. Banks receive money deposits, and lend money using those deposits, but not in a 1:1 rate. The rate varies, but, for instance, for every dollar a bank gets in deposits it can lend 10, which means that effectively banks create money. Also consider that this money created out of nowhere is redeposited, repeating the cycle, so in the end a dollar ends up making a thousand. For the record, currently the rate is 1:infinity in the US