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Qatar Airways demands payment for training from terminated flight crew
- deathgrips 6y agoLawyer up.
- gbil 6y agothat was my initial reaction, like "ok this would not stand at any court". then I realized that it probably affects employees who live and are citizens of Qatar or similar nations in which 1. I have no idea about their legal system 2. and the only idea I have from what I see in the news etc. about worker rights etc. is not the best
- ornornor 6y agoIsn’t it Qatar where you go to jail if you fail to pay your debts? Or maybe it’s only Saudi Arabia, I can’t remember. And this was the reason why the city was apparently littered with perfectly good but abandoned Ferrari and lamborghini cars.
- helsinkiandrew 6y agoI guess this will be won, if at all, in the court of popular opinion
- Antwan 6y agoI wouldn't pay anything if I were this guy. He has the advantage of holding the balance in his account, and this matter doesn't stick in front of any court. So good luck to QAW to see the color of this money.
- jonplackett 6y agoThat’s it, I’m cancelling my summer holiday to Qatar.
- vinay427 6y agoI can't tell if you're serious, but Qatar has had a long history of migrant worker abuses and exploitation, perhaps most globally publicized due to the FIFA World Cup controversies. This Qatar Airways incident is rather benign by comparison. Migrant/foreign workers make up almost 90% of their workforce according to this article, which honestly makes much of Qatar seem dependent on something resembling indentured servitude: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/qatar/report-qatar/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...
- squnch 6y agoThere’s a word you have skirted around: “slavery.” Qatar is a slave trafficking state and deserves a total embargo far more than Iran or Cuba does.
- mcv 6y agoIt's a disgrace that all countries are not already boycotting the FIFA championship in Qatar. Slavery is just one of the many things wrong with the decision to hold the championship there, though it's definitely the worst.
- jonplackett 6y agoDon't worry, it was a joke! I thought that would be more obvious given the current lockdown in most countries.
- vinay427 6y agoHa, thanks for clarifying! I wasn't sure and perhaps should have taken it more lightly, but then I couldn't have attempted to make a point. :)
- notRobot 6y agoThis really sucks for those affected. It's one thing if an organisation chooses to stop funding their employees' education further, but to sack them and then demand compensation for what was supposed to be under "scholarship"? Ugh. Shitty.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y agoBy COVID standards, Qatar has actually been one of the better-off airlines in the Gulf, since (unlike the UAE) they still allow transit passengers and have been making some money flying stranded people around, even to the extent of putting on entirely new destinations like Brisbane. But obviously their business has still taken a huge hit and they've got a lot of excess capacity to shed. As always, PPrune has the goss: https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged-513.html https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airw... But this has always been the flip side of doing business in the Gulf: you're paid well, but once you're no longer useful, you'll be discarded without a second thought. This happened during the GFC as well and there were plenty of stories of once high-flying expats sleeping in their cars.
- Retardo_88 6y agoI can't access the page. Can someone kindly provide a summary?
- dzaragozar 6y agoGo to https://web.archive.org/web/20200511090135/https://ukaviation.news/qatar-airways-you-are-no-longer-required-heres-a-130000-bill/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200511090135/https://ukaviatio...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ville 6y agoHere’s an archive.is mirror: http://archive.is/5E8qO http://archive.is/5E8qO
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- LatteLazy 6y agoThis is pretty standard in many countries and industries. Really, we need a law that turns it into a loan automatically with reasonable terms at the end of employment. But other than that, this is no different to any other student loan. Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another.
- a3n 6y agoHow did I kill free education?
- gambiting 6y ago>>Boomers killed free education, so now everyone pays one way or another. This anglo-centric assumption is killing me on HN. My "boomer" parents were deep in a communist state at my age and they could only dream of the quality of life that we enjoy today. But hey they are "boomers" so fuck them, right?
- LatteLazy 6y agoThey weren't boomers. Boomers is a specifically western phenomenon. In China for instance, the same generation were basically the oppose: they were given nothing and built a much better standard of living for their children. Sorry to be anglocentric. I try not to be, but it slips through sometimes. :)
- gspr 6y ago> They weren't boomers. Boomers is a specifically western phenomenon. Your original comment is still super US-centric. I live in a western European country. In my country, the "boomer" generation and their parents built the welfare state that gave me free education from kindergarten to PhD. I'm forever grateful for that, and the social safety nets they put in place.
- LatteLazy 6y agoI live in the UK. We have a higher density of boomers and they’re more boomerish than the US. Like all social categories, ymmv! Out of interest, what country do you live in? I thought all of Western Europe had welfare etc before the boomers took over?
- redis_mlc 6y agoIt's an interesting situation. Qatar Airlines pilot requirements are ICAO ATP, which you can convert to an FAA license, or just go fly in China. (It's more difficult to go the opposite way, from FAA to European (EASA.)) You will never hear of such a situation where the pilot is billed for ab initio training in the US because US airlines do very little such training, if any. When US airlines partner with a flight training academy, they just promise to let graduates apply. :) Sometimes US airlines will pay for (jet) type ratings, which cost in the $20k range, and charge the pilot if they leave within a year.
- helsinkiandrew 6y agoAre there any comprehensive websites that are documenting this type of behaviour for the future - like Glassdoor but for consumers and investors? Given an equal choice between buying something from two companies I'd choose the one that had been nicer to its employees and community. Case in point - I own a (quite small) number of shares in UK retailer Hotel Chocolat. I'd probably have sold them if it wasn't for their apparently decent policy: https://www.hotelchocolat.com/uk/corona-virus-updates.html https://www.hotelchocolat.com/uk/corona-virus-updates.html
- hprotagonist 6y agoIn the case of Qatar, you just have to read the news. e.g., https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fifa-qatar-world-cup-2022-migrants-dutch-union-slavery-fnv-bangladesh-court-legal-action-a7356191.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fifa-qa...
- dariusj18 6y agoI considered doing one at one point, then saw my domain idea was already taken. http://covidshame.com/ http://covidshame.com/ They don't have much info about their project. I kind of assume they won't follow up.
- onetimemanytime 6y agoTraining was done in 2013 apparently. Still hasn't paid it by working for 7 years? Makes no sense.
- xwdv 6y agoHe hasn’t worked, he’s been training and dicking around. Imagine just being paid to learn about your job, without ever really producing any value, for the past seven years.
- Shivetya 6y agowell based on the comments on this story they should just work as a full time poster on HN, not reading the story by automatically knee jerk responding how vile the company is. this story comes down to a contract dispute, the pilot signed an agreement as part of being given training and if the company is guilty of anything it is guilty of letting it go for this many years. sometimes the little guy is at fault
- drevil-v2 6y ago"The other side of the story here is that the pilot has spent the past six years completing a two year training course, and still hasn’t passed any of the tests necessary to become a pilot. The airline became fed up, and since they’re firing pilots anyway and trying to cut costs, they also decided to terminate their contract with her at this point."
- gazoakley 6y agoMore background here: https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-fires-pilot/ https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airways-fires-pilot/ https://viewfromthewing.com/qatar-airways-firing-pilots-and-sending-them-a-bill/ https://viewfromthewing.com/qatar-airways-firing-pilots-and-... It's suggested in the first article that the pilot had failed to pass the necessary exams: "The other side of the story here is that the pilot has spent the past six years completing a two year training course, and still hasn’t passed any of the tests necessary to become a pilot. The airline became fed up, and since they’re firing pilots anyway and trying to cut costs, they also decided to terminate their contract with her at this point."
- nujabe 6y agoFair play to me!
- growse 6y agoWhy would they hire someone so incapable in the first place?
- truthsayer71 6y agoInterviews and tests don't determine how competent someone is going to be performing a job in future, passing candidates are just as likelty to be as competent or non competent. What you should really be asking is that how come they end up hiring competent people in first place? Because those who apply are already have knowledge or experience to help them be competent in first place. I have seen some people who interview and pass tests well end up being useless and sometimes those who initially don't present well end up being competent. How would you determine competency in the first place? In many cases with enough practice and assistance even the most incompetent can perform the required tasks successfully. There is no test to show that anyone is going to be competent or not in future. At above some intelligence level everyone is just as likely to end up being competent in performing any job, but the time that they have reached the position of applying for a specialised job they are likely to be competent in.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- raverbashing 6y agoFlyer forums have a lot of information on work conditions regarding airlines around the world (usually the ones that attract expats). From what I remember this company does not get the better reviews, even when compared with other companies from the same region.
- ornornor 6y agoI think this clause is standard for cadets. I don’t agree with it but I remember looking into becoming a cadet when I was much younger. I distinctly remember EasyJet: you basically had to go to a bank to get the loan for the whole cost of your pilot training (300k GBP iirc) in your name. If you failed to pass any of the mandatory exams and steps during your training, you’d be kicked out and have to repay the loan back on your own. If you made it as a pilot, EasyJet would deduct part of your salary to pay back. It seemed like a very shitty arrangement for the cadet/pilot wannabe where you basically shoulder most of the risk for the privilege of working as a pilot for EasyJet. I didn’t enroll to become a pilot. I don’t regret it.