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Should "mid-career" software developers still be focused on low-balling themselves with having to do "career growth" things like this fellow, or should they pla

Should "mid-career" software developers still be focused on low-balling themselves with having to do "career growth" things like this fellow, or should they plan their exit strategy to get out of that career trajectory entirely? Assuming mid-career is actually mid-career and not the ageist SV type of mid-career.

aswanson 6y ago
The latter. Build up cash and invest in a career path that values experience.
- pragmatic 6y ago
  And what would that be exactly? What's safe from being Ubered out of existence?
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    > What's safe from being Ubered out of existence? Uberizing an industry.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Depends. In Europe, dev salaries and taxes don't allow you to build enough cash for an exit path unless you plan on staying childless.
  - badpun 6y ago
    It's doable in Switzerland and in London, at least until the tax laws around contracting change.
    - oblio 6y ago
      And that's probably 10% of developers in Europe, at best. More likely 1-5%.
  - yxhuvud 6y ago
    On the other hand I haven't really seen the oft-mentioned ageism in Europe (or well, Stockholm, which is where I have experience from). If anything the opposite - experienced devs are always much harder to find for recruiting than juniors. Which is problematic as the juniors need mentoring to properly function.
dvirsky 6y ago
It kind of depends on whether you like it or not I guess.
qchris 6y ago
Just to be clear, there's not a subtext to this question (and I'm less that two years out of school so I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to me anyway), but would you mind laying out your approximate ranges for mid-career in both of those categories? Are you assuming a retirement age of mid-60s? Mid-70s? Between 5-10 years in a field? 10-20? Does it correlate with a particular approach or competence in their field? How does that contrast with your characterization of the "SV type of mid-career"? I've seen comments like yours a few times, and don't think I really have a useful reference frame to fully understand what people mean by it. I'd appreciate any insight you (or anyone else that cares to chime in) might have on it.
- ivalm 6y ago
  Presumably full length of career is ~40 years. Presumably “mid” is ~half, so 20YOE? There is a claim that SV culture is biased against older people so this might cut effective max age to... idk, 50? So mid career is then ~10-15 YOE?
- oblio 6y ago
  The retirement age in many countries is 65 and increasing. So mid career would be something like 40-50 in my eyes: about 15 years from finishing school and 15 years from retiring.
stale2002 6y ago
I mean even if we are talking about L4s and L5s at a place like Google, these careers still pay an absolute ton of money. If I am in my 40s and I am still making ~300-400k a year, then I would consider that a good deal. Being permanently "stuck" making the insanely high salaries of engineers at top tech companies is still a really good gig.

aswanson 6y ago

The latter. Build up cash and invest in a career path that values experience.

pragmatic 6y ago
And what would that be exactly? What's safe from being Ubered out of existence?
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  > What's safe from being Ubered out of existence? Uberizing an industry.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Depends. In Europe, dev salaries and taxes don't allow you to build enough cash for an exit path unless you plan on staying childless.
- badpun 6y ago
  It's doable in Switzerland and in London, at least until the tax laws around contracting change.
  - oblio 6y ago
    And that's probably 10% of developers in Europe, at best. More likely 1-5%.
- yxhuvud 6y ago
  On the other hand I haven't really seen the oft-mentioned ageism in Europe (or well, Stockholm, which is where I have experience from). If anything the opposite - experienced devs are always much harder to find for recruiting than juniors. Which is problematic as the juniors need mentoring to properly function.

dvirsky 6y ago

It kind of depends on whether you like it or not I guess.

qchris 6y ago

Just to be clear, there's not a subtext to this question (and I'm less that two years out of school so I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to me anyway), but would you mind laying out your approximate ranges for mid-career in both of those categories? Are you assuming a retirement age of mid-60s? Mid-70s? Between 5-10 years in a field? 10-20? Does it correlate with a particular approach or competence in their field? How does that contrast with your characterization of the "SV type of mid-career"? I've seen comments like yours a few times, and don't think I really have a useful reference frame to fully understand what people mean by it. I'd appreciate any insight you (or anyone else that cares to chime in) might have on it.

ivalm 6y ago
Presumably full length of career is ~40 years. Presumably “mid” is ~half, so 20YOE? There is a claim that SV culture is biased against older people so this might cut effective max age to... idk, 50? So mid career is then ~10-15 YOE?
oblio 6y ago
The retirement age in many countries is 65 and increasing. So mid career would be something like 40-50 in my eyes: about 15 years from finishing school and 15 years from retiring.

stale2002 6y ago

I mean even if we are talking about L4s and L5s at a place like Google, these careers still pay an absolute ton of money. If I am in my 40s and I am still making ~300-400k a year, then I would consider that a good deal. Being permanently "stuck" making the insanely high salaries of engineers at top tech companies is still a really good gig.