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Some perhaps unsolicited advice from a hiring manager in a company very similar to the great ones in which this writer was unsuccessful. - Rare programmers won
by lynchdt 6y ago
Some perhaps unsolicited advice from a hiring manager in a company very similar to the great ones in which this writer was unsuccessful.
- Rare programmers won’t identify themselves as such.
- Most great companies hire for humility as a trait.
- soneca 6y agoI think I am not understanding your advice (or the post). I didn’t see where the author claims to be a ”rare programmer” or does not show humility.
- marcinzm 6y agoIt's in the cover letter.
- soneca 6y agoGot it, thanks. Still, I am reading it with more generous eyes I think. It seemed to be used to contextualize their communication skills. Not as ”I am better than most”, more like ”I have this unique trait that you might value”. But I can see how it could be read
- marcinzm 6y agoSo true, excessive ego is really problematic on an engineering team. There's a thin but very real line between confidant and egoistical. And most hiring managers err on the side of caution when seeing potential red flags.
- eel 6y agoWhile I agree with your advice in the general case, I also find the author's data point interesting and compelling. Receiving 2 offers from 7 interviews with only 16 applications is a good rate in software engineering as far as I am aware. It's also worth pointing out that the cover letter mentioning "rare programmer" ultimately led to an interview and an offer according to the author.
- scarface74 6y agoIt depends. For the types of companies he was applying to - yes. For your standard experienced “enterprise dev” in most major US cities outside of the west coast and NYC, pre-Covid the demand was so high and so few experience developers come on the market, you could usually find a job in less than a month depending on if you were looking for the “right job” or the “right now” job. That’s been my experience since 2000 with the exception of the years between 2008-2010. Of course that’s if you do enough resume driven development and have a strong network of former coworkers and local recruiters.
- mettamage 6y agoI want to ask a silly question. I know there are no such things as silly questions according to some people. In any case: What happens if great companies do not hire for humility as a trait? Is it truly as simple as: too many unkind people get into the company? Or could one be more cynical and say: it's easier to not have humble people negotiate tough salaries? Or is it something completely different? I honestly don't know and have no reference.
- lynchdt 6y agoMaybe I was a little terse in my response. Humility often comes hand in hand with a growth mindset and a real eagerness to learn. Not hiring for that limits the long term upside of the hire ie you get what you get right now.
- mettamage 6y agoIs that what humility is? I find the word so confusing (non-native English speaker). When I look at the definition of it [1], I can't see that it means a growth mindset and a real eagerness to learn. From the definition that I read, could as easily mean having a mindset of that whatever you know now is something one should be grateful for, and you don't always need to push yourself so hard. [1] : freedom from pride or arrogance : the quality or state of being humble accepted the honor with humility The ordeal taught her humility.
- cargoshipit 6y agoToxic people absolutely demolish morale and productivity. The effects are strong enough that even a hint of egotistical behavior is enough to put you out of the running (for good reason).
- GoToRO 6y agoI really hope is humbleness and not humility. But yes, managers want people they can control.