6 ms·

I think the article is spot-on. So far only .03% of the population of Sweden has died from Covid-19. (3.2k/10.2M). Pretty negligible. Does that really justify

by htnsao 6y ago

I think the article is spot-on. So far only .03% of the population of Sweden has died from Covid-19. (3.2k/10.2M). Pretty negligible. Does that really justify the consequences of shutting down the world economy? Most of those people were going to be dying soon anyway. Like my grandma, she was 93. I think we are experiencing the modern equivalent of China's disastrous "Great Leap Forward". But instead of being caused by terrified bureaucrats listening to a tyrant, this time it's from terrified politicians listening to the bleeding-heart media. The same folks that are always whining about something have now brought about the "Great Leap Backward". One could say the world is now suffering under the tyranny of the media. Or rather, suffering the tyranny of the meek.

joshuamorton 6y ago
I think people overestimate how "open" Sweden really is. It's not particularly more open than many states, it's just that businesses and individuals have chosen to take individual responsibility to protect society[0], as opposed to fighting it as a danger to the economy and an infringement on rights. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/sweden-covid-19-policy-trust-citizens-state https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/...
- htnsao 6y ago
  Ok so look at Brazil, 11k dead out of 212M = .005%
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    They reported 500 dead today, and 600 yesterday. Let's see where they are in a week or two (it'll be with 3x these death numbers and likely entering a lockdown de facto due to popular support for it).
    - htnsao 6y ago
      >They reported 500 dead today, and 600 yesterday. Brazil normally has 3800 deaths per day [0] so, as Bolsonaro says, so what. Some of the sick and elderly dying a few months earlier does not warrant removing the livelihoods of everyone else. >Let's see where they are in a week or two (it'll be with 3x these death numbers and likely entering a lockdown de facto due to popular support for it). Popular support is a function of media manipulation. And we know what types gravitate to that kind of work. [0]:https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/brazil-population/ https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/brazil-populatio...
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        > And we know what types gravitate to that kind of work. I have no clue what you're getting at, fwiw. As for the meat of your comment, exponential growth hits like a truck. 1/3 of Brazil's confirmed Covid-19 cases were confirmed last week. In general that means the death rate, which lags infection rate by a week or so, is based on 100K infected, not 150K. So this time next week we'll see 1000 per day. The week after, 1500 per day, actually probably more as hospitals get overwhelmed. > Some of the sick and elderly dying a few months earlier does not warrant removing the livelihoods of everyone else. And what of the hundred plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus people under 60 who have died from covid-19 in Brazil so far? And the 100 plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus additional people under 60 who will die from covid-19 in Brazil in the next week?
        htnsao 6y ago
        >> And we know what types gravitate to that kind of work. >I have no clue what you're getting at, fwiw. Basically the kind of people that on any given day (it switches to a new subject every few weeks) are whining(/bullying) about feminism, gay rights, misogyny, bullying, #metoo, etc etc are now causing the collapse of the world economy. >As for the meat of your comment, exponential growth hits like a truck. They say that but hasn't happened. And it's not like the virus is going disappear everywhere before the lockdowns need to be let up so there really is no point in having them in the first place. People just need to soldier on. >And what of the hundred plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus people under 60 who have died from covid-19 in Brazil so far? And the 100 plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus additional people under 60 who will die from covid-19 in Brazil in the next week? As shown in the previous link, 1 person net is added to the population of Brazil every 21 seconds. That's the real emergency.
  - awalsh128 6y ago
    It looks like you are just cherrypicking examples and wildly speculating. Brazil is early into this and seeing a high rate of transmission (R0 2.8). We really don't know enough in this country's case what the end result will be in terms of mortality.
    - htnsao 6y ago
      >It looks like you are just cherrypicking examples and wildly speculating. Hardly. Those are the two countries that have resisted shutdown of their economies and are showing negligible percentage of deaths. And the World Food Programme has stated that the coronovirus shutdown is putting ~265 million at risk of famine and "as our Executive Director told the UN Security Council on Tuesday, we could be looking at 300,000 people dying every day for three months" [0] >Brazil is early into this and seeing a high rate of transmission (R0 2.8). We really don't know enough in this country's case what the end result will be in terms of mortality. Yeah. Perhaps it will bump up from .005% of their population dying to .03%. Mostly the already sick and elderly. [0]:https://www.dw.com/en/world-food-program-act-now-to-prevent-coronavirus-famine/a-53219305 https://www.dw.com/en/world-food-program-act-now-to-prevent-...

by htnsao 6y ago

joshuamorton 6y ago

I think people overestimate how "open" Sweden really is. It's not particularly more open than many states, it's just that businesses and individuals have chosen to take individual responsibility to protect society[0], as opposed to fighting it as a danger to the economy and an infringement on rights. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/sweden-covid-19-policy-trust-citizens-state https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/...

htnsao 6y ago
Ok so look at Brazil, 11k dead out of 212M = .005%
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  They reported 500 dead today, and 600 yesterday. Let's see where they are in a week or two (it'll be with 3x these death numbers and likely entering a lockdown de facto due to popular support for it).
  - htnsao 6y ago
    >They reported 500 dead today, and 600 yesterday. Brazil normally has 3800 deaths per day [0] so, as Bolsonaro says, so what. Some of the sick and elderly dying a few months earlier does not warrant removing the livelihoods of everyone else. >Let's see where they are in a week or two (it'll be with 3x these death numbers and likely entering a lockdown de facto due to popular support for it). Popular support is a function of media manipulation. And we know what types gravitate to that kind of work. [0]:https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/brazil-population/ https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/brazil-populatio...
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      > And we know what types gravitate to that kind of work. I have no clue what you're getting at, fwiw. As for the meat of your comment, exponential growth hits like a truck. 1/3 of Brazil's confirmed Covid-19 cases were confirmed last week. In general that means the death rate, which lags infection rate by a week or so, is based on 100K infected, not 150K. So this time next week we'll see 1000 per day. The week after, 1500 per day, actually probably more as hospitals get overwhelmed. > Some of the sick and elderly dying a few months earlier does not warrant removing the livelihoods of everyone else. And what of the hundred plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus people under 60 who have died from covid-19 in Brazil so far? And the 100 plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus additional people under 60 who will die from covid-19 in Brazil in the next week?
      - htnsao 6y ago
        >> And we know what types gravitate to that kind of work. >I have no clue what you're getting at, fwiw. Basically the kind of people that on any given day (it switches to a new subject every few weeks) are whining(/bullying) about feminism, gay rights, misogyny, bullying, #metoo, etc etc are now causing the collapse of the world economy. >As for the meat of your comment, exponential growth hits like a truck. They say that but hasn't happened. And it's not like the virus is going disappear everywhere before the lockdowns need to be let up so there really is no point in having them in the first place. People just need to soldier on. >And what of the hundred plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus people under 60 who have died from covid-19 in Brazil so far? And the 100 plus people under thirty and the 1000 plus additional people under 60 who will die from covid-19 in Brazil in the next week? As shown in the previous link, 1 person net is added to the population of Brazil every 21 seconds. That's the real emergency.
- awalsh128 6y ago
  It looks like you are just cherrypicking examples and wildly speculating. Brazil is early into this and seeing a high rate of transmission (R0 2.8). We really don't know enough in this country's case what the end result will be in terms of mortality.
  - htnsao 6y ago
    >It looks like you are just cherrypicking examples and wildly speculating. Hardly. Those are the two countries that have resisted shutdown of their economies and are showing negligible percentage of deaths. And the World Food Programme has stated that the coronovirus shutdown is putting ~265 million at risk of famine and "as our Executive Director told the UN Security Council on Tuesday, we could be looking at 300,000 people dying every day for three months" [0] >Brazil is early into this and seeing a high rate of transmission (R0 2.8). We really don't know enough in this country's case what the end result will be in terms of mortality. Yeah. Perhaps it will bump up from .005% of their population dying to .03%. Mostly the already sick and elderly. [0]:https://www.dw.com/en/world-food-program-act-now-to-prevent-coronavirus-famine/a-53219305 https://www.dw.com/en/world-food-program-act-now-to-prevent-...