4 ms·

You Get the Talent That You Pay For

chrisbennet 6y ago
I'm a software developer/consultant. A good client was asking if I could do something for a cheaper rate. I explained that neither one of us was a "commodity engineer" [we both have 3 decades of experience]. And that there would be some jobs that just didn't make sense for us to do economically speaking. They are still a great client.
camjohnson26 6y ago
Reminds me of the Picasso napkin story: http://blog.brianbraun.net/wisdom/picassos-napkin-wisdom-on-experience-and-pricing http://blog.brianbraun.net/wisdom/picassos-napkin-wisdom-on-...
- praveenscience 6y ago
  Reminds me of the ship story: https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/ https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/
ken 6y ago
Is this still feasible advice in the current economic climate? Everyone I know is either firing or shutting down. I have no problem saying "pay me more", but that's hard to follow up when there are no other jobs to be had. I imagine the response might be "that's fine, there's over a million people in this state on unemployment I can get instead".
- chillacy 6y ago
  I've noticed that the longer your career is, the harder it is to find someone who can replace you. E.g. if a company wants you because you grew MS Office for 5 years and then did the same for Google Sheets, and they want you to help them do the same, there are few substitutes.
- dismalpedigree 6y ago
  Not everybody is laying off or firing. If you are in Denver USA or Ottawa Canada we are accelerating our hiring. Its interesting and challenging work. Techinsights.com if you or anybody else is interested.
distantaidenn 6y ago
This of course extends to software. I’m a engineer and consultant and have been turned down on some projects a few times due to them finding what they believe is a better deal. Software (like shoes) is one of the absolute cases of “you get what you pay for.” Sure enough after hiring a dirt cheap offshore that promises the world for a fraction of the cost, they come crawling back with a buggy mess, asking me if I’m still available. My rates are what they are because I’ve been in this game for over ten years and I know what I can do. For anyone reading this that’s currently in this position. You are not saving money. You’re increasing both cost and development time in the long run.
- Jack000 6y ago
  been on both sides of the fence. As an employer, the problem is that everyone says this, even people who have no idea what they're doing. In fact these people are over - represented in the hiring pool because skilled devs are usually already overbooked and not looking for work. "pay more for better talent" implies that everyone is paid what they're worth, which is not true. If hiring better candidates was as simple as paying more, the recruiting industry wouldn't exist.
  - distantaidenn 6y ago
    Same old argument. Yes, highly skilled devs are in high demand and do get a lot of introductions and work. But, speaking from experience, we still need to get the deal closed and negotiation is par the course.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  You rarely get more than you pay for, but you also don’t always get what you pay for...
  - distantaidenn 6y ago
    Of course, I'm being anecdotal. But I have seen this play out far too many times. From huge multi-nationals trying to cut corners to solo founders trying to get something built. Heh, reminds me of a time at said huge multinational. We were building a team in Thailand, and one of the execs knew that I had worked there in the past doing just that. He calls me over and says, "We're trying to figure out how much to pay the team. What are engineer salaries like in Bangkok?" I made sure to give the team a nice bump, based on my "estimate."
mythrwy 6y ago
You get no more talent than you pay for.
econcon 6y ago
And I've paid many people way more than I ever got back. Just because someone charges more doesn't mean they'll be great at their craft. It just takes a dillusional person who isn't living in grounded reality to charge you through the roof and offer you rock bottom quality of work. Anyone who thinks they'll magically get great work by paying higher prices is here for a suprize. I had people charge very less give me great work and I had people charging a lot to give me shoddy work. It's always your responsibility to figure out what the quality of work you'll get for a given price.

I'm a software developer/consultant. A good client was asking if I could do something for a cheaper rate. I explained that neither one of us was a "commodity engineer" [we both have 3 decades of experience]. And that there would be some jobs that just didn't make sense for us to do economically speaking. They are still a great client.

camjohnson26 6y ago

Reminds me of the Picasso napkin story: http://blog.brianbraun.net/wisdom/picassos-napkin-wisdom-on-experience-and-pricing http://blog.brianbraun.net/wisdom/picassos-napkin-wisdom-on-...

praveenscience 6y ago
Reminds me of the ship story: https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/ https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/

ken 6y ago

Is this still feasible advice in the current economic climate? Everyone I know is either firing or shutting down. I have no problem saying "pay me more", but that's hard to follow up when there are no other jobs to be had. I imagine the response might be "that's fine, there's over a million people in this state on unemployment I can get instead".

chillacy 6y ago
I've noticed that the longer your career is, the harder it is to find someone who can replace you. E.g. if a company wants you because you grew MS Office for 5 years and then did the same for Google Sheets, and they want you to help them do the same, there are few substitutes.
dismalpedigree 6y ago
Not everybody is laying off or firing. If you are in Denver USA or Ottawa Canada we are accelerating our hiring. Its interesting and challenging work. Techinsights.com if you or anybody else is interested.

distantaidenn 6y ago

This of course extends to software. I’m a engineer and consultant and have been turned down on some projects a few times due to them finding what they believe is a better deal. Software (like shoes) is one of the absolute cases of “you get what you pay for.” Sure enough after hiring a dirt cheap offshore that promises the world for a fraction of the cost, they come crawling back with a buggy mess, asking me if I’m still available. My rates are what they are because I’ve been in this game for over ten years and I know what I can do. For anyone reading this that’s currently in this position. You are not saving money. You’re increasing both cost and development time in the long run.

Jack000 6y ago
been on both sides of the fence. As an employer, the problem is that everyone says this, even people who have no idea what they're doing. In fact these people are over - represented in the hiring pool because skilled devs are usually already overbooked and not looking for work. "pay more for better talent" implies that everyone is paid what they're worth, which is not true. If hiring better candidates was as simple as paying more, the recruiting industry wouldn't exist.
- distantaidenn 6y ago
  Same old argument. Yes, highly skilled devs are in high demand and do get a lot of introductions and work. But, speaking from experience, we still need to get the deal closed and negotiation is par the course.
sokoloff 6y ago
You rarely get more than you pay for, but you also don’t always get what you pay for...
- distantaidenn 6y ago
  Of course, I'm being anecdotal. But I have seen this play out far too many times. From huge multi-nationals trying to cut corners to solo founders trying to get something built. Heh, reminds me of a time at said huge multinational. We were building a team in Thailand, and one of the execs knew that I had worked there in the past doing just that. He calls me over and says, "We're trying to figure out how much to pay the team. What are engineer salaries like in Bangkok?" I made sure to give the team a nice bump, based on my "estimate."

mythrwy 6y ago

You get no more talent than you pay for.

econcon 6y ago

And I've paid many people way more than I ever got back. Just because someone charges more doesn't mean they'll be great at their craft. It just takes a dillusional person who isn't living in grounded reality to charge you through the roof and offer you rock bottom quality of work. Anyone who thinks they'll magically get great work by paying higher prices is here for a suprize. I had people charge very less give me great work and I had people charging a lot to give me shoddy work. It's always your responsibility to figure out what the quality of work you'll get for a given price.