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It shouldn't be a surprise that the same culture that brought us deplatforming and canceling, would bring us cutting out your parents because you disagree with

It shouldn't be a surprise that the same culture that brought us deplatforming and canceling, would bring us cutting out your parents because you disagree with their politics. Do it for yourself. Your parents are a huge part of your psyche: they made you--100% in a genetic sense, and in most cases they made a lot of your personality traits by the way they raised you. And they made you in their image, because they could only give you what they had. In a sense, making peace with your parents is making peace with yourself. It's not comfortable but many things that are worthwhile aren't. Maybe set a boundary where you don't talk about politics. Or do talk about politics if you can keep it polite and productive: it's pretty fucked up that so many people just write off people because they hold radical political views. One of the most effective ways to change the political landscape is for people to talk to radicals and explain to them patiently why their views are wrong. And that's most effective when coming from loved ones, I think. Don't try to do it if you can't do it in a healthy way, but it's certainly a worthwhile endeavor if you can do it.

deleted 7y ago
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tempestn 7y ago
> explain to them patiently why their views are wrong Good luck with that. Best I think is reasonable to hope for with that much of a gulf is to model the attitudes you believe in, and hope the other person eventually comes around. Don't think anyone with radical views has ever been convinced by someone explaining - calmly or otherwise - why they're wrong. As to the OP's question of whether he's obligated to talk to his father, with whom he shares no interests and disagrees on strongly-held beliefs, multiple times per week. My answer would be a hard no, but that's far from cutting him out of his life. I agree with you that it's emotionally beneficial to have a connection with your parents where possible, and that OP could try to have contact with his dad. But forcing it on a very regular basis when it's unpleasant and uncomfortable seems counter-productive.
- kerkeslager 6y ago
  > Don't think anyone with radical views has ever been convinced by someone explaining - calmly or otherwise - why they're wrong. Well, I can disprove that: me. I grew up with some pretty homophobic views, and due to some very patient people in my life, I realized I was wrong. And I've had similar conversations with other people and seen their views change over time. > As to the OP's question of whether he's obligated to talk to his father, with whom he shares no interests and disagrees on strongly-held beliefs, multiple times per week. My answer would be a hard no, but that's far from cutting him out of his life. I don't think there's any obligation. > I agree with you that it's emotionally beneficial to have a connection with your parents where possible, and that OP could try to have contact with his dad. But forcing it on a very regular basis when it's unpleasant and uncomfortable seems counter-productive. There's a range of unpleasantness and discomfort, and I think some level of both is a necessary part of growth. If every conversation turns into a screaming match--sure that's counterproductive. But if you're at a point in your life when you can handle disagreement in a healthy way, disagreement doesn't need to be avoided.
yebyen 7y ago
> set a boundary where you don't talk about politics Underrated piece of advice right there. I see a doctor who I explained this problem to (I have diametrically opposed views from my parents, and feel compelled to un-brainwash them, in spite of the obvious fact that it never works...) She is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, or GP, for that matter, just someone who sees a lot of people, and her advice for me was "sometimes it's better if you just don't talk about certain things with certain people." My parents have some stupid-ass opinions, and I'll be the first to tell you! But they worked in health care for 30 years and they respect doctors, so when I told them "it was my doctor's advice that we just don't talk about this stuff anymore" for the third or fourth time, (it took at least that many times for me to be sure they heard it) each time before and after that, we just had better feelings everyone. I'm not going to say I don't get shitpost emails from my Dad anymore but I try to listen to my doctors, and reinforce the advice, and especially ignoring the messaging that triggers me, rather than repeating myself, and it works! I feel like we have a healthy relationship, and they are not afraid to share real meaningful important advice when I actually may need it. You can be clear about your views without rubbing anyone's noses in it, and you may catch more flies with honey (in spite of what I've often heard to the contrary).
RangerScience 7y ago
As a friend puts it (and in the most extreme cases) "genocide is not an opinion." As I understand it, the most common reason to cut your parents out of your life for "political differences" is when those "differences" are beliefs of theirs that lead to them considering categories of people that you are or care about to be less-than. That crosses a line from "politics" to "bigotry". The next major chunk I'm aware of it is correlative rather than causative; certain political stances (ex: conspiratorial bent) seem to correlate with toxic relationships. So yes, AFAIK, it's better to have a healthy relationship with your parents. But, if they don't want to have a healthy relationship with you - which AFAIK can happen due to "political differences" - gonna be hard to make that happen. So yes, AFAIK, the culture that brought deplatforming and cancelling also brought cutting out your parents... as a subset of "cutting toxic people out of your life". Totes agree with the rest of your post tho.
- kerkeslager 6y ago
  > As I understand it, the most common reason to cut your parents out of your life for "political differences" is when those "differences" are beliefs of theirs that lead to them considering categories of people that you are or care about to be less-than. That crosses a line from "politics" to "bigotry". Yeah, but bigots are still people. And I have faith in people. Bigots can and do become not-bigots.
deleted 7y ago
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scandox 7y ago
I don't think it's necessarily fair to frame it this way. Disagreements over values have always been a potential flashpoint between parents and children. Especially where the children's values are in fact a reaction to their parents (perceived) bad values. So it isn't about the latest and greatest techniques of Public discourse. This is has been going on forever.
- kerkeslager 6y ago
  > I don't think it's necessarily fair to frame it this way. Disagreements over values have always been a potential flashpoint between parents and children. Especially where the children's values are in fact a reaction to their parents (perceived) bad values. Sure, disagreements over values aren't new. But ostracizing your parents because of those disagreements has certainly increased due to modern political strategy.
albedoa 7y ago
> it's pretty fucked up that so many people just write off people because they hold radical political views. It's extremely reasonable actually.
- burgerzzz 7y ago
  I guess it's "extremely reasonable" as long as you're extremely comfortable living in a box, only accepting viewpoints that align with your own, and to hell with everyone, including your family who don't agree with YOU. Because when it comes down to it, it's not about them, it's about you.
  - albedoa 7y ago
    We are talking about "radical views" here, not simply "viewpoints that don't align with our own". It's bizarre that you think those are the same.
    - burgerzzz 7y ago
      If you use the most reductive reasoning possible, then sure, I guess it's bizarre.
      - albedoa 7y ago
        Nobody is reducing your comments. That is what you wrote.
    - kerkeslager 6y ago
      What's the difference?
      - albedoa 6y ago
        I'm happy to continue the conversation, but we shouldn't entertain the rantings of the guy who claims to believe that repeating the basis of his argument back to him is reductive. My Keybase is in the bio, either twitter or [my domain]@gmail.com
mirimir 7y ago
Maybe some y'all will hate on me for it (or would, if I got into specifics) but I can find common ground with just about anyone. Although I am very opinionated, I do my best to keep in mind that they're just opinions, and that I don't have the truth. I don't explain why others are wrong. I just have conversations. And I'm always willing to change my opinion.
supercowpowers 7y ago
And this is why I enjoy Hacker News.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

tempestn 7y ago

> explain to them patiently why their views are wrong Good luck with that. Best I think is reasonable to hope for with that much of a gulf is to model the attitudes you believe in, and hope the other person eventually comes around. Don't think anyone with radical views has ever been convinced by someone explaining - calmly or otherwise - why they're wrong. As to the OP's question of whether he's obligated to talk to his father, with whom he shares no interests and disagrees on strongly-held beliefs, multiple times per week. My answer would be a hard no, but that's far from cutting him out of his life. I agree with you that it's emotionally beneficial to have a connection with your parents where possible, and that OP could try to have contact with his dad. But forcing it on a very regular basis when it's unpleasant and uncomfortable seems counter-productive.

kerkeslager 6y ago
> Don't think anyone with radical views has ever been convinced by someone explaining - calmly or otherwise - why they're wrong. Well, I can disprove that: me. I grew up with some pretty homophobic views, and due to some very patient people in my life, I realized I was wrong. And I've had similar conversations with other people and seen their views change over time. > As to the OP's question of whether he's obligated to talk to his father, with whom he shares no interests and disagrees on strongly-held beliefs, multiple times per week. My answer would be a hard no, but that's far from cutting him out of his life. I don't think there's any obligation. > I agree with you that it's emotionally beneficial to have a connection with your parents where possible, and that OP could try to have contact with his dad. But forcing it on a very regular basis when it's unpleasant and uncomfortable seems counter-productive. There's a range of unpleasantness and discomfort, and I think some level of both is a necessary part of growth. If every conversation turns into a screaming match--sure that's counterproductive. But if you're at a point in your life when you can handle disagreement in a healthy way, disagreement doesn't need to be avoided.

yebyen 7y ago

> set a boundary where you don't talk about politics Underrated piece of advice right there. I see a doctor who I explained this problem to (I have diametrically opposed views from my parents, and feel compelled to un-brainwash them, in spite of the obvious fact that it never works...) She is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, or GP, for that matter, just someone who sees a lot of people, and her advice for me was "sometimes it's better if you just don't talk about certain things with certain people." My parents have some stupid-ass opinions, and I'll be the first to tell you! But they worked in health care for 30 years and they respect doctors, so when I told them "it was my doctor's advice that we just don't talk about this stuff anymore" for the third or fourth time, (it took at least that many times for me to be sure they heard it) each time before and after that, we just had better feelings everyone. I'm not going to say I don't get shitpost emails from my Dad anymore but I try to listen to my doctors, and reinforce the advice, and especially ignoring the messaging that triggers me, rather than repeating myself, and it works! I feel like we have a healthy relationship, and they are not afraid to share real meaningful important advice when I actually may need it. You can be clear about your views without rubbing anyone's noses in it, and you may catch more flies with honey (in spite of what I've often heard to the contrary).

RangerScience 7y ago

As a friend puts it (and in the most extreme cases) "genocide is not an opinion." As I understand it, the most common reason to cut your parents out of your life for "political differences" is when those "differences" are beliefs of theirs that lead to them considering categories of people that you are or care about to be less-than. That crosses a line from "politics" to "bigotry". The next major chunk I'm aware of it is correlative rather than causative; certain political stances (ex: conspiratorial bent) seem to correlate with toxic relationships. So yes, AFAIK, it's better to have a healthy relationship with your parents. But, if they don't want to have a healthy relationship with you - which AFAIK can happen due to "political differences" - gonna be hard to make that happen. So yes, AFAIK, the culture that brought deplatforming and cancelling also brought cutting out your parents... as a subset of "cutting toxic people out of your life". Totes agree with the rest of your post tho.

kerkeslager 6y ago
> As I understand it, the most common reason to cut your parents out of your life for "political differences" is when those "differences" are beliefs of theirs that lead to them considering categories of people that you are or care about to be less-than. That crosses a line from "politics" to "bigotry". Yeah, but bigots are still people. And I have faith in people. Bigots can and do become not-bigots.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

scandox 7y ago

I don't think it's necessarily fair to frame it this way. Disagreements over values have always been a potential flashpoint between parents and children. Especially where the children's values are in fact a reaction to their parents (perceived) bad values. So it isn't about the latest and greatest techniques of Public discourse. This is has been going on forever.

kerkeslager 6y ago
> I don't think it's necessarily fair to frame it this way. Disagreements over values have always been a potential flashpoint between parents and children. Especially where the children's values are in fact a reaction to their parents (perceived) bad values. Sure, disagreements over values aren't new. But ostracizing your parents because of those disagreements has certainly increased due to modern political strategy.

albedoa 7y ago

> it's pretty fucked up that so many people just write off people because they hold radical political views. It's extremely reasonable actually.

burgerzzz 7y ago
I guess it's "extremely reasonable" as long as you're extremely comfortable living in a box, only accepting viewpoints that align with your own, and to hell with everyone, including your family who don't agree with YOU. Because when it comes down to it, it's not about them, it's about you.
- albedoa 7y ago
  We are talking about "radical views" here, not simply "viewpoints that don't align with our own". It's bizarre that you think those are the same.
  - burgerzzz 7y ago
    If you use the most reductive reasoning possible, then sure, I guess it's bizarre.
    - albedoa 7y ago
      Nobody is reducing your comments. That is what you wrote.
  - kerkeslager 6y ago
    What's the difference?
    - albedoa 6y ago
      I'm happy to continue the conversation, but we shouldn't entertain the rantings of the guy who claims to believe that repeating the basis of his argument back to him is reductive. My Keybase is in the bio, either twitter or [my domain]@gmail.com

mirimir 7y ago

Maybe some y'all will hate on me for it (or would, if I got into specifics) but I can find common ground with just about anyone. Although I am very opinionated, I do my best to keep in mind that they're just opinions, and that I don't have the truth. I don't explain why others are wrong. I just have conversations. And I'm always willing to change my opinion.

supercowpowers 7y ago

And this is why I enjoy Hacker News.