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I didn't say your experience was an outlier, just that you're surely a bit biased towards a certain point of view having taken up Clojure right after it was bir

I didn't say your experience was an outlier, just that you're surely a bit biased towards a certain point of view having taken up Clojure right after it was birthed. But yes, your experience is bound to be an outlier compared to people starting to use it in much a more mature state, which will be nearly everyone in the long run. As for jdbc, I don't use it currently, but did at my old job (along with honey sql). If you think you have to rewrite some DB access code just because there's a newer library out, maybe the real problem is not Clojure, but your mindset. Perhaps something to think about.

thom 6y ago
The old library has always been painfully slow on large datasets, and is no longer actively maintained so that isn't getting fixed. And because Clojure people expect you to compose libraries not use frameworks, these sorts of upgrades are never transparent. Thus, a whole new library, the Clojure way. And again, this is every year I've used Clojure (e.g. the Shadow migration you yourself went through on what I can only assume was one tiny web app). I'll happily stop patronising your 3 years experience if you stop gaslighting mine. You'll be telling people you never get type errors and you find Clojure's stacktraces really readable next, all the greatest hits. :)
- simongray 6y ago
  Not sure what you think your many straw men are going to accomplish. Pretty sure almost no one but the two of will be reading this...? I guess you think your attitude is a mark of superiority, but in reality you sound about as intellectual as Holden Caulfield in The Catcher in the Rye.
  - thom 6y ago
    I'm not trying to sound intellectual, I'm just trying to convince you my experience is real. I posted a very simple response to the article, detailing one direct consequence of a preference for libraries over frameworks. You're the one that jumped in to tell me I was making it up. You can take personally any criticism of your favourite language and its proponents (I'm still one of them, honest!), or you can approach technology with a degree of scepticism. Really no interest of mine, and it's clear the feeling is mutual. Good luck in your future endeavours (and for what it's worth, I used to work for a Clojure NLP startup so I do genuinely mean that - wouldn't it be nice if there was a nice cohesive framework for NLP tasks in Clojure?)

thom 6y ago

The old library has always been painfully slow on large datasets, and is no longer actively maintained so that isn't getting fixed. And because Clojure people expect you to compose libraries not use frameworks, these sorts of upgrades are never transparent. Thus, a whole new library, the Clojure way. And again, this is every year I've used Clojure (e.g. the Shadow migration you yourself went through on what I can only assume was one tiny web app). I'll happily stop patronising your 3 years experience if you stop gaslighting mine. You'll be telling people you never get type errors and you find Clojure's stacktraces really readable next, all the greatest hits. :)

simongray 6y ago
Not sure what you think your many straw men are going to accomplish. Pretty sure almost no one but the two of will be reading this...? I guess you think your attitude is a mark of superiority, but in reality you sound about as intellectual as Holden Caulfield in The Catcher in the Rye.
- thom 6y ago
  I'm not trying to sound intellectual, I'm just trying to convince you my experience is real. I posted a very simple response to the article, detailing one direct consequence of a preference for libraries over frameworks. You're the one that jumped in to tell me I was making it up. You can take personally any criticism of your favourite language and its proponents (I'm still one of them, honest!), or you can approach technology with a degree of scepticism. Really no interest of mine, and it's clear the feeling is mutual. Good luck in your future endeavours (and for what it's worth, I used to work for a Clojure NLP startup so I do genuinely mean that - wouldn't it be nice if there was a nice cohesive framework for NLP tasks in Clojure?)