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Elon said they have been able to reopen safely in China, and that zero of their 7,000 employees there have died of Corona. Joe Rogan challenged him on this, as

by natch 7y ago

Elon said they have been able to reopen safely in China, and that zero of their 7,000 employees there have died of Corona. Joe Rogan challenged him on this, asking “how can you trust the Chinese media”? Elon’s answer: We don’t have to rely on the media. We know how many people we have. We have to; we do payroll. He has a point. And zero is a pretty good number. If they know how to do it in China, they can apply those same safety measures elsewhere. I wish he would also acknowledge family spread and fatalities if there are any, because that can also be a thing. But still, hard news, this is something we are going to have to live with for a while. And they are managing it pretty well in one factory at least. Also if you haven’t ever been to a Tesla factory... it’s not a place where people are crammed together by any means. It’s vast. Workers are quite spread out for the most part.

nathanvanfleet 7y ago
But what if somehow they were close together. Like a lunch room or a bathroom. Not sure if the bathrooms are particularly vast. It's also a question of how opening a factory creates scenarios where people have to commute which creates risk too. People at my office are working remotely but some things are prevented because there are things in the physical office. Traveling across town is the reason they don't go in.
sandworm101 7y ago
>> that zero of their 7,000 employees there have died of Corona. How many have died of other things? How many have lost grandparents to "pneumonia"? Is anyone sick with an diagnosed respiratory illness? What about suppliers? Have they been impacted? Are any of their people home sick? Saying simply "nobody under my roof is dead" is not helpful. I see a very wealthy manufacturer of luxury goods lashing out in the face of some cold realities. Oil prices have tanked. The world is looking at serious recession. The growth forecast for luxury electric vehicles is dim.
- catalogia 7y ago
  You say "lashing out in the face of cold realities" yet all you've mentioned are hypotheticals you think might be likely, while Elon Musk is talking about the apparent fact that none of his employees have died.
Shivetya 7y ago
Well given the arbitrary nature of many of the closing demands it can get very frustrating regardless of your business size. I do know in a recent meeting we have been told two employees have died world wide out of over fifty thousand yet across the world, if not just in the US, where people who work can work is not consistent nor are the rules consistent.
tensor 7y ago
But China has also effectively limited or stopped the spread. I know it's not a popular idea given the US rhetoric, but there truly is no evidence that they haven't. So in light of that, it shouldn't be too hard to reopen things like factories. That said, I do believe that with sufficient protections it should be possible to operate a mostly robotic factory safely. So I do sympathize with him on that front.
cactus2093 7y ago
I can’t follow his logic whatsoever. China...actually handled this outbreak. That’s why they can reopen. They were locked down for months in many areas. So that comparison if anything is a justification not to reopen right now - stay locked down long enough to squash this, and we’ll be able to safely reopen like China. If anything he should be suing the county for putting on such an ineffective lockdown which makes this take longer than it needed to. Businesses are forced to close but for individuals it’s basically a completely voluntary lockdown right now and I see lots of people opting out, not wearing masks, meeting up with friends, etc.
- natch 6y ago
  The way you talk about people’s behavior, meeting up with friends and such, it almost sounds like going to work in the factory would actually be safer, because people are so physically separated there in their different tasks. BTW if you don’t wear a mask and go out without getting within 6 feet of anyone, you’re not opting out of California guidance. You’re following it. Masks are for if you do expect to encounter situations where you are closer than 6 feet for an extended time. People are lazy and don’t read the fine print, and they miss this part.
  - cactus2093 6y ago
    > BTW if you don’t wear a mask and go out without getting within 6 feet of anyone, you’re not opting out of California guidance. Exactly, this is the type of half-assed measures that may be preventing our decline in cases. (If it's not, and there is good evidence of exactly what types of activities California's continued plateau of cases is coming from, I would be very interested to read about that). Unless you're in a very rural area, you can't possibly be sure that you won't have to pass within 6 ft of someone when you go outside. A single other person walking on the sidewalk with you is going to inevitably be less than 6 ft away. Not to mention that the 6ft advice was just ballpark to begin with, and the virus can seemingly travel further in e.g. the slipstreams of a runner or biker's breath, or even hang around in the air. Masks should be required even outside during the Phase 1, full-lockdown phase. It's a such a minor additional inconvenience for people.

by natch 7y ago

nathanvanfleet 7y ago

But what if somehow they were close together. Like a lunch room or a bathroom. Not sure if the bathrooms are particularly vast. It's also a question of how opening a factory creates scenarios where people have to commute which creates risk too. People at my office are working remotely but some things are prevented because there are things in the physical office. Traveling across town is the reason they don't go in.

sandworm101 7y ago

>> that zero of their 7,000 employees there have died of Corona. How many have died of other things? How many have lost grandparents to "pneumonia"? Is anyone sick with an diagnosed respiratory illness? What about suppliers? Have they been impacted? Are any of their people home sick? Saying simply "nobody under my roof is dead" is not helpful. I see a very wealthy manufacturer of luxury goods lashing out in the face of some cold realities. Oil prices have tanked. The world is looking at serious recession. The growth forecast for luxury electric vehicles is dim.

catalogia 7y ago
You say "lashing out in the face of cold realities" yet all you've mentioned are hypotheticals you think might be likely, while Elon Musk is talking about the apparent fact that none of his employees have died.

Shivetya 7y ago

Well given the arbitrary nature of many of the closing demands it can get very frustrating regardless of your business size. I do know in a recent meeting we have been told two employees have died world wide out of over fifty thousand yet across the world, if not just in the US, where people who work can work is not consistent nor are the rules consistent.

tensor 7y ago

But China has also effectively limited or stopped the spread. I know it's not a popular idea given the US rhetoric, but there truly is no evidence that they haven't. So in light of that, it shouldn't be too hard to reopen things like factories. That said, I do believe that with sufficient protections it should be possible to operate a mostly robotic factory safely. So I do sympathize with him on that front.

cactus2093 7y ago

I can’t follow his logic whatsoever. China...actually handled this outbreak. That’s why they can reopen. They were locked down for months in many areas. So that comparison if anything is a justification not to reopen right now - stay locked down long enough to squash this, and we’ll be able to safely reopen like China. If anything he should be suing the county for putting on such an ineffective lockdown which makes this take longer than it needed to. Businesses are forced to close but for individuals it’s basically a completely voluntary lockdown right now and I see lots of people opting out, not wearing masks, meeting up with friends, etc.

natch 6y ago
The way you talk about people’s behavior, meeting up with friends and such, it almost sounds like going to work in the factory would actually be safer, because people are so physically separated there in their different tasks. BTW if you don’t wear a mask and go out without getting within 6 feet of anyone, you’re not opting out of California guidance. You’re following it. Masks are for if you do expect to encounter situations where you are closer than 6 feet for an extended time. People are lazy and don’t read the fine print, and they miss this part.
- cactus2093 6y ago
  > BTW if you don’t wear a mask and go out without getting within 6 feet of anyone, you’re not opting out of California guidance. Exactly, this is the type of half-assed measures that may be preventing our decline in cases. (If it's not, and there is good evidence of exactly what types of activities California's continued plateau of cases is coming from, I would be very interested to read about that). Unless you're in a very rural area, you can't possibly be sure that you won't have to pass within 6 ft of someone when you go outside. A single other person walking on the sidewalk with you is going to inevitably be less than 6 ft away. Not to mention that the 6ft advice was just ballpark to begin with, and the virus can seemingly travel further in e.g. the slipstreams of a runner or biker's breath, or even hang around in the air. Masks should be required even outside during the Phase 1, full-lockdown phase. It's a such a minor additional inconvenience for people.