4 ms·

They are trying to kill the idea of local apps and exe's, aka they can finally turn "files" into property by using active directory and NTFS for the entire inte

by shm33 6y ago

They are trying to kill the idea of local apps and exe's, aka they can finally turn "files" into property by using active directory and NTFS for the entire internet. You all seem clueless as to the last 20 years of software theft in the game industry. Everyone 20 year ago on slashdot was worried about software and hardware drm, windows 10 is the first version of windows where they are trying to turn the PC into a mobile locked down platform because of the success of walled gardens like steam, world of warcraft, and the appstores like apple/google play. The level of stupid on hacker news is disturbing, we used to get complete PC games in the 90's and early 2000's before the public fell for mmo scam of the late 90's which put PC gaming on the path of massive game theft. Valve is basically a criminal game stealing empire by infecting games with client-server code. The whole industry wants to take us to mainframe dumb client computing. https://tifca.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ClienttoCloud_Vision_V2.pdf https://tifca.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/ClienttoCloud_V...

dexen 6y ago
Hot rhetoric aside, this comment is insightful, so I'm vouching it.
- detaro 6y ago
  Seems like this is a continuation of another account which has posted nothing but the same kind of thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=som33 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=som33
  - shm33 6y ago
    They are locking the PC down, aka no more general computing, they want to turn it into a dumb terminal, future cpu's wont run older versions of windows OS. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3025399/microsoft-wont-support-most-skylake-pcs-without-windows-10.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3025399/microsoft-wont...
pojzon 6y ago
There is still CD Project Red which seems to be the last bastion of DRM free games. I hope Activision (aka Tencent) will never buy them out. China is a cancer also in gaming industry.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
badRNG 6y ago
The polemic style writing is really off-putting, but I wholeheartedly agree with this. I know Microsoft keeps trying and failing, but I think they will eventually succeed with a separate version of Windows that is clearly a separate "walled garden" product, that is far more secure, far better performance, only supports UWP apps, and is uncoupled from being in the backwards-compatibility hell that the "main" Windows variant is. Such a product "powered by Microsoft Office" would be an incredibly compelling Chromebook competitor. As to whether or not it will support ARM, support AD, or even be open source, only time will tell. I could definitely see something like Windows X or a rebuilt Windows S (locked into S) being a glimpse into this future.
- atomi 6y ago
  I don't personally find it off-putting. Op made some great points. and they deserve to be addressed on their merits, not on their tone.
  - noirbot 6y ago
    You can make great points without saying everyone else on the site is "levels of stupid". That's unnecessary, unhelpful, and just escalates the debate immediately. OP is the one who brought an incensed and polemical tone to this thread - asking everyone else to only react to the substance just gives them a free pass on what is innately anti-social behavior that detracts from a civil discussion.
    - shm33 6y ago
      >That's unnecessary, unhelpful, and just escalates the debate immediately. Stating facts about the fact that everyone is losing control of their PC's because of their stupid consumer behavior is not in any way inflammatory. Why would you give away your basic rights to own and control your own PC and have it coded honestly unless you were irrational? There are dire implications for privacy and human rights if you believe in "cloud computing" which I refer to as "stolen software as a service" SaaS can only exist in a world where the public is irrational, you are building turnkey dictatorship infrastructure, if the world ever goes south because every piece of software can monitor and spy on everything you do and is broadcast to foreign companies and governments, you are naively trusting these foreign entities have your best interests in mind. I'd say that qualifies the word "stupid" in my post. You've just allowed every big company to spy on you permanently and helped wipe out privacy for the rest by producing perverse market incentives for software that locks down our devices and removes our freedom and privacy.
noirbot 6y ago
In what way is World of Warcraft a "walled garden"? It's a single game. If anything, it's one of the most extensible online games made by a major studio. Do you just mean "walled garden" as "not FOSS"? It's a game as a service, sure, but that doesn't make it a scam. That's like saying that renting an apartment is a scam because you don't own it. You can question if it's a good financial decision, but that doesn't make it not a fair exchange of money for a product.
- jenscow 6y ago
  But... when I buy a gun in one game, I'd like to be able to use it in another.
- shm33 6y ago
  You don't get that mmo's are just rebranded PC RPG's, they are a fake genre invented to convince gullible people like you to give up game ownership. Someone who was rational would have demanded the server exe and the ability to own ultima online, you could have had the same "MMO" for a fixed price, no montlhy fee and the server EXE. Client-server is the same as INCOMPLETE SOFTWARE, why would you buy a game or operating system where the second CD/DVD needs a foreign computer with the "key disc" that disables your software remotely? You don't get that the true purpose of "MMO's" was to move undermine software ownership for every piece of software on the planet, you don't get if you accept client-server for one piece of software, you accept it for ALL SOFTWARE. Because all software is, is a list of binary numbers, instructions, if you are not given a complete set of instructions to run the entire APP locally you are being conned because it won't stop at RPG's, that is how we ended up with "client server" windows 10, no one should want an operating system, or Microsoft office, where part of the applications files is held hostage on some remote server, it's the same as buying incomplete software, or software with a second DVD missing that they mysteriously kept in their office. You and the rest of mankind are gullible to an insane degree. You don't get the agenda, so I'll have to spell it out for you. Imagine we have a 5 PC lan, and the person in the middle of the network is the programmer and he is making games, mainly PC RPG's, that means if he makes a "client server" rpg and you buy his idea "software as a service" he will do that to EVERY FUTURE PIECE OF SOFTWARE to enrich himself, he is now OWNER of that 5 PC network you dolt, including the operating system, including word processor. EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF SOFTWARE CAN BE MADE CLIENT SERVER IN A NETWORKED WORLD. That means the death of software ownership and personal privacy on your PC. AKA it's literally stealing the software, there is NO FINANCIAL INCENTIVE to go back to local applications if you buy ANY client-server software. For 99% of cases, client server anything, whether that is an operating system, game or word processor is irrational. Because they can now destroy the software you paid for. No one who was rational would buy software with a self-destruct button on it that could be disabled remotely. You don't grasp that most of us hardware gamers in the 90's were expecting PC RPG' to continue with dedicated servers, and saw the mmo supporting half of the nerd kingdom as clueless and dumb, you are the reason why STEAM exists, steam can only exist in a world where the average game buyer is irrational and doesn't get the corporate agenda.
soulofmischief 6y ago
I was with you until MMO Scam. The people behind Mazewar, Ultima Online, MUDs, etc. were not trying to scam you out of money and ownership. They were innovating heavily on what games could look like in a networked platform. It was revolutionary at the time. Not everyone in the industry is on one side here, and if you want to fight this war efficiently and intelligently, you need to know precisely who your enemies are.
- shm33 6y ago
  MMO's were a scam, they were just rebranded PC RPG's, you don't seem to get you are the gullible one here. If you buy ANY piece of software in an internet enabled world that you don't own or ontrol, you have just broadcast to the entire corporate world that you are gullible. They will try to client-server EVERY game and EVERY piece of software, what the hell do you think mobile is? Steam is by definition an irrational piece of corporate malware that shouldn't exist, up until 2004 we were getting complete local applications, or honestly coded PC games. That is why as you go backwards in time before internet penetration reached the computer illiterate, we had level editors, server exe's and dedicated servers embedded inside the main game exe. Descent 3 came with server executable. MMO's are just RPG's where the server exe isn't given to you. You can see this "MMO" racing game you can play completely "offline" proving that mmo's were a scam. Need for speed world was just a fork of most wanted and rewritten to be client server, AKA a scam. Think of this, you can run Need for speed world entirely from your PC without monthly fee or micro-transactions, then that means that paying a monthly fee for software you don't own is irrational. https://need-speed-world.en.uptodown.com/windows https://need-speed-world.en.uptodown.com/windows Anytime you see a login screen on a piece of game or other software you're seeing stolen software buddy. You don't get they've already won, the battle was won between 1997 and 2004. Ultima online and everquest were trial balloons to undermine software ownership on the PC, they are tests of your gullibility to literally steal PC RPG's out from under you. I know you find this hard to believe, but see the science, I can tell you the facts and you won't reason to the right conclusion, see the science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ
- folkhack 6y ago
  Also with such highly populated games they have to do a TON of ongoing work to support the infrastructure to the point that they would lose money on customers in a matter of months if they didn't charge subscription fees.
JKCalhoun 6y ago
You should be able to (within reason) use your computer without an internet connection.
cameronbrown 6y ago
> Valve is basically a criminal game stealing empire by infecting games with client-server code. Uhh.. Valve release all their game server binaries for anyone to run, and sometimes even the source code (Half-Life, Half-Life 2). If you're going to rag on any games company, it shouldn't be them.
- ptty56 6y ago
  Valve did so because they had steam money to rely on, they were boiling the frog slowly. Notice what they did to TF2 and now the are making artifact (totally microtransaction based game). Notice how all that money from Dota 2 and TF2 were the end game, you don't get that STEAM malware client, was for valve to ultimately to get to in game stores. Valve was very careful in how they manipulated you into not owning your ow games so they could shove in game stores and mtx into them. For other games like battlefield or modern warfare, and even overwatch... the problem remains that they can shut down the game remotely, aka Overwatch is not coded in an honest way where you own the game outright, you can't use its multiplayer as a stand alone app, aka you're using stolen software that is coded in a criminally screwed up way so that Activision maintains control. The whole goal for the game industry was in game stores and mtx in every game and to do that they need to undermine game ownership. Fortnite, Dota 2, and league of legends would have been fully boxed product games with LAN multiplayer/dedicated servers in a past era, aka for most AAA games we no longer get server exe's and get matchamking. Quake champions is literally a stolen quake game where you don't get to own it, quake fans wanted a quake they owned and controlled like the first 4 quakes, with QeRadiant, dedicated servers, etc. Quake champions can only exist in a world where companies have won and games are being coded in criminally underhanded ways to deny local application game files.
- cameronbrown 6y ago
  (Replying to dead comment.) > Valve did so because they had steam money to rely on, they were boiling the frog slowly. Citation needed. Valve have been very good to the TF2/Dota 2 communities. Again, you _can_ run the servers for these products. Worst comes to worst, if Valve turns evil, then pirating the software is easy. There's good points to be had that Overwatch is terrible for not releasing the server, but Valve are not.

by shm33 6y ago

dexen 6y ago

Hot rhetoric aside, this comment is insightful, so I'm vouching it.

detaro 6y ago
Seems like this is a continuation of another account which has posted nothing but the same kind of thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=som33 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=som33
- shm33 6y ago
  They are locking the PC down, aka no more general computing, they want to turn it into a dumb terminal, future cpu's wont run older versions of windows OS. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3025399/microsoft-wont-support-most-skylake-pcs-without-windows-10.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3025399/microsoft-wont...

pojzon 6y ago

There is still CD Project Red which seems to be the last bastion of DRM free games. I hope Activision (aka Tencent) will never buy them out. China is a cancer also in gaming industry.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

badRNG 6y ago

The polemic style writing is really off-putting, but I wholeheartedly agree with this. I know Microsoft keeps trying and failing, but I think they will eventually succeed with a separate version of Windows that is clearly a separate "walled garden" product, that is far more secure, far better performance, only supports UWP apps, and is uncoupled from being in the backwards-compatibility hell that the "main" Windows variant is. Such a product "powered by Microsoft Office" would be an incredibly compelling Chromebook competitor. As to whether or not it will support ARM, support AD, or even be open source, only time will tell. I could definitely see something like Windows X or a rebuilt Windows S (locked into S) being a glimpse into this future.

atomi 6y ago
I don't personally find it off-putting. Op made some great points. and they deserve to be addressed on their merits, not on their tone.
- noirbot 6y ago
  You can make great points without saying everyone else on the site is "levels of stupid". That's unnecessary, unhelpful, and just escalates the debate immediately. OP is the one who brought an incensed and polemical tone to this thread - asking everyone else to only react to the substance just gives them a free pass on what is innately anti-social behavior that detracts from a civil discussion.
  - shm33 6y ago
    >That's unnecessary, unhelpful, and just escalates the debate immediately. Stating facts about the fact that everyone is losing control of their PC's because of their stupid consumer behavior is not in any way inflammatory. Why would you give away your basic rights to own and control your own PC and have it coded honestly unless you were irrational? There are dire implications for privacy and human rights if you believe in "cloud computing" which I refer to as "stolen software as a service" SaaS can only exist in a world where the public is irrational, you are building turnkey dictatorship infrastructure, if the world ever goes south because every piece of software can monitor and spy on everything you do and is broadcast to foreign companies and governments, you are naively trusting these foreign entities have your best interests in mind. I'd say that qualifies the word "stupid" in my post. You've just allowed every big company to spy on you permanently and helped wipe out privacy for the rest by producing perverse market incentives for software that locks down our devices and removes our freedom and privacy.

noirbot 6y ago

In what way is World of Warcraft a "walled garden"? It's a single game. If anything, it's one of the most extensible online games made by a major studio. Do you just mean "walled garden" as "not FOSS"? It's a game as a service, sure, but that doesn't make it a scam. That's like saying that renting an apartment is a scam because you don't own it. You can question if it's a good financial decision, but that doesn't make it not a fair exchange of money for a product.

jenscow 6y ago
But... when I buy a gun in one game, I'd like to be able to use it in another.
shm33 6y ago
You don't get that mmo's are just rebranded PC RPG's, they are a fake genre invented to convince gullible people like you to give up game ownership. Someone who was rational would have demanded the server exe and the ability to own ultima online, you could have had the same "MMO" for a fixed price, no montlhy fee and the server EXE. Client-server is the same as INCOMPLETE SOFTWARE, why would you buy a game or operating system where the second CD/DVD needs a foreign computer with the "key disc" that disables your software remotely? You don't get that the true purpose of "MMO's" was to move undermine software ownership for every piece of software on the planet, you don't get if you accept client-server for one piece of software, you accept it for ALL SOFTWARE. Because all software is, is a list of binary numbers, instructions, if you are not given a complete set of instructions to run the entire APP locally you are being conned because it won't stop at RPG's, that is how we ended up with "client server" windows 10, no one should want an operating system, or Microsoft office, where part of the applications files is held hostage on some remote server, it's the same as buying incomplete software, or software with a second DVD missing that they mysteriously kept in their office. You and the rest of mankind are gullible to an insane degree. You don't get the agenda, so I'll have to spell it out for you. Imagine we have a 5 PC lan, and the person in the middle of the network is the programmer and he is making games, mainly PC RPG's, that means if he makes a "client server" rpg and you buy his idea "software as a service" he will do that to EVERY FUTURE PIECE OF SOFTWARE to enrich himself, he is now OWNER of that 5 PC network you dolt, including the operating system, including word processor. EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF SOFTWARE CAN BE MADE CLIENT SERVER IN A NETWORKED WORLD. That means the death of software ownership and personal privacy on your PC. AKA it's literally stealing the software, there is NO FINANCIAL INCENTIVE to go back to local applications if you buy ANY client-server software. For 99% of cases, client server anything, whether that is an operating system, game or word processor is irrational. Because they can now destroy the software you paid for. No one who was rational would buy software with a self-destruct button on it that could be disabled remotely. You don't grasp that most of us hardware gamers in the 90's were expecting PC RPG' to continue with dedicated servers, and saw the mmo supporting half of the nerd kingdom as clueless and dumb, you are the reason why STEAM exists, steam can only exist in a world where the average game buyer is irrational and doesn't get the corporate agenda.

soulofmischief 6y ago

I was with you until MMO Scam. The people behind Mazewar, Ultima Online, MUDs, etc. were not trying to scam you out of money and ownership. They were innovating heavily on what games could look like in a networked platform. It was revolutionary at the time. Not everyone in the industry is on one side here, and if you want to fight this war efficiently and intelligently, you need to know precisely who your enemies are.

shm33 6y ago
MMO's were a scam, they were just rebranded PC RPG's, you don't seem to get you are the gullible one here. If you buy ANY piece of software in an internet enabled world that you don't own or ontrol, you have just broadcast to the entire corporate world that you are gullible. They will try to client-server EVERY game and EVERY piece of software, what the hell do you think mobile is? Steam is by definition an irrational piece of corporate malware that shouldn't exist, up until 2004 we were getting complete local applications, or honestly coded PC games. That is why as you go backwards in time before internet penetration reached the computer illiterate, we had level editors, server exe's and dedicated servers embedded inside the main game exe. Descent 3 came with server executable. MMO's are just RPG's where the server exe isn't given to you. You can see this "MMO" racing game you can play completely "offline" proving that mmo's were a scam. Need for speed world was just a fork of most wanted and rewritten to be client server, AKA a scam. Think of this, you can run Need for speed world entirely from your PC without monthly fee or micro-transactions, then that means that paying a monthly fee for software you don't own is irrational. https://need-speed-world.en.uptodown.com/windows https://need-speed-world.en.uptodown.com/windows Anytime you see a login screen on a piece of game or other software you're seeing stolen software buddy. You don't get they've already won, the battle was won between 1997 and 2004. Ultima online and everquest were trial balloons to undermine software ownership on the PC, they are tests of your gullibility to literally steal PC RPG's out from under you. I know you find this hard to believe, but see the science, I can tell you the facts and you won't reason to the right conclusion, see the science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ
folkhack 6y ago
Also with such highly populated games they have to do a TON of ongoing work to support the infrastructure to the point that they would lose money on customers in a matter of months if they didn't charge subscription fees.

JKCalhoun 6y ago

You should be able to (within reason) use your computer without an internet connection.

cameronbrown 6y ago

> Valve is basically a criminal game stealing empire by infecting games with client-server code. Uhh.. Valve release all their game server binaries for anyone to run, and sometimes even the source code (Half-Life, Half-Life 2). If you're going to rag on any games company, it shouldn't be them.

ptty56 6y ago
Valve did so because they had steam money to rely on, they were boiling the frog slowly. Notice what they did to TF2 and now the are making artifact (totally microtransaction based game). Notice how all that money from Dota 2 and TF2 were the end game, you don't get that STEAM malware client, was for valve to ultimately to get to in game stores. Valve was very careful in how they manipulated you into not owning your ow games so they could shove in game stores and mtx into them. For other games like battlefield or modern warfare, and even overwatch... the problem remains that they can shut down the game remotely, aka Overwatch is not coded in an honest way where you own the game outright, you can't use its multiplayer as a stand alone app, aka you're using stolen software that is coded in a criminally screwed up way so that Activision maintains control. The whole goal for the game industry was in game stores and mtx in every game and to do that they need to undermine game ownership. Fortnite, Dota 2, and league of legends would have been fully boxed product games with LAN multiplayer/dedicated servers in a past era, aka for most AAA games we no longer get server exe's and get matchamking. Quake champions is literally a stolen quake game where you don't get to own it, quake fans wanted a quake they owned and controlled like the first 4 quakes, with QeRadiant, dedicated servers, etc. Quake champions can only exist in a world where companies have won and games are being coded in criminally underhanded ways to deny local application game files.
cameronbrown 6y ago
(Replying to dead comment.) > Valve did so because they had steam money to rely on, they were boiling the frog slowly. Citation needed. Valve have been very good to the TF2/Dota 2 communities. Again, you _can_ run the servers for these products. Worst comes to worst, if Valve turns evil, then pirating the software is easy. There's good points to be had that Overwatch is terrible for not releasing the server, but Valve are not.