4 ms·

No, today the USA surpassed an absolute max of 78k deaths, with the true number surely being far lower when you take into account: • The huge numbers dying of

No, today the USA surpassed an absolute max of 78k deaths, with the true number surely being far lower when you take into account: • The huge numbers dying of what would otherwise be called old age who simply happen to test positive at the moment of death. • The financial incentives hospitals are given to code deaths as COVID. • The rampant reporting of COVID without tests based on nothing more than suspicion (combine that with the second point) At this point the death counts for COVID around the world are so corrupted they're basically meaningless.

whatever1 6y ago
Just look at the absolute total number of monthly deaths this year (regardless of the reason), month-to-month, and compare it the to past years. Unless you have another explanation about why specifically this year we have this great spike from February, then it is the COVID, either directly or indirectly. Dont forget that testing for COVID is basically impossible for an asymptomatic person here in the US. Adding a source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...
acdha 6y ago
Unless you have strong proof that the entire public health is engaged in some sort of coverup, please stop spreading conspiracy theories. There’s clearly a large uptick in deaths and it’s global so theories about hospital billing on one country are insufficient to explain it. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...
- thu2111 6y ago
  You're getting mixed up between figures and then attacking people who understand them better. Please give the benefit of the doubt! There are two figures being widely reported for deaths: 1. Total excess mortality of all causes 2. "COVID deaths" The claim was about (2) and so that's what my points were about. Excess death is up, yes. There's a disease, it does cause people to die, especially if they're already vulnerable. Arguments about the all cause mortality spikes are different and not related to the arguments for over-counting of "COVID deaths", which isn't a conspiracy theory but rather actual stated government policy [1]. The figure for "COVID deaths" includes cases where it's merely assumed that the death was caused by COVID. No test or even evidence need be cited. If doctors are completely reliable this wouldn't be a problem, but they get a 20% payment incentive when patients are claimed to be COVID patients [2]. If you're curious about the arguments surrounding all-cause mortality, the problem is that stay-at-home orders have been taken very literally by many sick people. Hospital admissions went down, not up, during this time, because people who should have been going to the emergency room for treatment got scared and stayed away. In the UK, the government just dropped the "stay at home" slogan it's been relentlessly promoting for weeks because - amongst other things - cardiac admissions halved, and doctors are now sounding the alarm about the huge oncoming wave of necessary life-saving treatments that were delayed in the expectation of a COVID surge that never happened. The NHS can't absorb a huge wave like that, because the needed treatments are so varied so you can't just throw up uniform field hospitals like they tried for COVID. In the UK the ONS is already reporting thousands of excess deaths not linked to COVID [3] even though being "linked to COVID" literally requires no evidence at all. There are very real problems here. [1] https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1246124190438227974?lang=en https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1246124190438227974?... [2] https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1251898539107594244?lang=en https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1251898539107594244?... [3] https://medium.com/wintoncentre/covid-and-excess-deaths-in-the-week-ending-april-10th-20ca7d355ec4 https://medium.com/wintoncentre/covid-and-excess-deaths-in-t...
  - acdha 6y ago
    You specifically claimed “true number surely being far lower“ than the official numbers and are now citing a conspiracy theorist with no relevant experience as evidence that the scientific establishment is wrong. I’m sorry you fell for Alex Berenson’s shtick but that doesn’t make you better informed.
    - thu2111 6y ago
      He's an investigative journalist, that's about as relevant as you get when investigating things. The tweets are just shorthand for the links he's posting. Ignore them if you like but the evidence found there is real. The scientific establishment is wrong - how can it be otherwise with such mangled data?

whatever1 6y ago

Just look at the absolute total number of monthly deaths this year (regardless of the reason), month-to-month, and compare it the to past years. Unless you have another explanation about why specifically this year we have this great spike from February, then it is the COVID, either directly or indirectly. Dont forget that testing for COVID is basically impossible for an asymptomatic person here in the US. Adding a source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...

acdha 6y ago

Unless you have strong proof that the entire public health is engaged in some sort of coverup, please stop spreading conspiracy theories. There’s clearly a large uptick in deaths and it’s global so theories about hospital billing on one country are insufficient to explain it. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...

thu2111 6y ago
You're getting mixed up between figures and then attacking people who understand them better. Please give the benefit of the doubt! There are two figures being widely reported for deaths: 1. Total excess mortality of all causes 2. "COVID deaths" The claim was about (2) and so that's what my points were about. Excess death is up, yes. There's a disease, it does cause people to die, especially if they're already vulnerable. Arguments about the all cause mortality spikes are different and not related to the arguments for over-counting of "COVID deaths", which isn't a conspiracy theory but rather actual stated government policy [1]. The figure for "COVID deaths" includes cases where it's merely assumed that the death was caused by COVID. No test or even evidence need be cited. If doctors are completely reliable this wouldn't be a problem, but they get a 20% payment incentive when patients are claimed to be COVID patients [2]. If you're curious about the arguments surrounding all-cause mortality, the problem is that stay-at-home orders have been taken very literally by many sick people. Hospital admissions went down, not up, during this time, because people who should have been going to the emergency room for treatment got scared and stayed away. In the UK, the government just dropped the "stay at home" slogan it's been relentlessly promoting for weeks because - amongst other things - cardiac admissions halved, and doctors are now sounding the alarm about the huge oncoming wave of necessary life-saving treatments that were delayed in the expectation of a COVID surge that never happened. The NHS can't absorb a huge wave like that, because the needed treatments are so varied so you can't just throw up uniform field hospitals like they tried for COVID. In the UK the ONS is already reporting thousands of excess deaths not linked to COVID [3] even though being "linked to COVID" literally requires no evidence at all. There are very real problems here. [1] https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1246124190438227974?lang=en https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1246124190438227974?... [2] https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1251898539107594244?lang=en https://twitter.com/alexberenson/status/1251898539107594244?... [3] https://medium.com/wintoncentre/covid-and-excess-deaths-in-the-week-ending-april-10th-20ca7d355ec4 https://medium.com/wintoncentre/covid-and-excess-deaths-in-t...
- acdha 6y ago
  You specifically claimed “true number surely being far lower“ than the official numbers and are now citing a conspiracy theorist with no relevant experience as evidence that the scientific establishment is wrong. I’m sorry you fell for Alex Berenson’s shtick but that doesn’t make you better informed.
  - thu2111 6y ago
    He's an investigative journalist, that's about as relevant as you get when investigating things. The tweets are just shorthand for the links he's posting. Ignore them if you like but the evidence found there is real. The scientific establishment is wrong - how can it be otherwise with such mangled data?