8 ms·

I’d like to know what Tesla factory workers think. It’s seeming clear to me from various polls that at most 20% of Americans think ‘oh everything is fine let’s

by firasd 6y ago

I’d like to know what Tesla factory workers think. It’s seeming clear to me from various polls that at most 20% of Americans think ‘oh everything is fine let’s go back to work and school tomorrow.’ So opinions on social distancing are not as polarized as you would think from the media.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
As always, the devil is in the details. I'd imagine a heavily automated car factory is actually one of the safer places to work, compared to (say) a hog slaughterhouse or a massage parlor. In a sane world, we'd let workers choose between going to work and staying home without undue penalties either way, but that's not going to happen in 'Murica.
- rasengan 6y ago
  The problem is that coronavirus lives for days [1] on various surfaces. Is Elon Musk going to be on the factory floor everyday too? Additionally, social distancing doesn’t work [2] and is a suggestion being made by non medical professionals to non medical students. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-suggests-new-coronavirus-may-remain-surfaces-days https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-s... [2] https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200414/cdc-covid-19-can-spread-13-feet-travel-on-shoes https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200414/cdc-covid-19-can-sp...
  - travisporter 6y ago
    Your second link is an interesting read. Even though the virus was found on the floor and >6 ft away in a Chinese hospital, fortunately no staff were infected. I am not a scientist but I think they just tested for viral fragments versus active infectable viral particles. It’s reassuring but caution is still warranted.
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      Moreover comparing a HOSPITAL with a factory is ludicrous as the viral loads are orders of magnitude different.
      - rasengan 6y ago
        Do you have scientific evidence of this?
Taniwha 6y ago
The problem of course is that Tesla is ardently anti-union - the workers have no one to speak on their behalf
- cheez 6y ago
  unions helped kill the car companies
  - smolder 6y ago
    So did the leadership, and every other circumstance that makes the US an expensive place to live and work compared to budding economies.
    - cheez 6y ago
      And this even though we've outsourced inflation.
  - frereubu 6y ago
    This does not necessarily follow. Car companies in Germany are heavily unionised and they’re not exactly struggling (at least no more than the entire industry).
    - chongli 6y ago
      Unions have a very different culture in the US as compared to Germany. American unions are in a highly adversarial relationship with their employers. This is compounded by a further adversarial relationship between certain political constituencies in the public and unions. A lot of this can be attributed to the history of the 20th century and the different effects of communism in these respective countries. This may even be reflected in the differing attitudes towards tertiary education and vocational school. It’s a very complicated issue with a lot of history.
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      That is because Western Europe has restrictive tariffs on car imports. If you want to put high tariffs on imports in the IS, then the IS industry would re-emerge also - though the price of cars would double.
duckMuppet 6y ago
What they think is about as relevant as opinion polls from a misinformed public. People largely have their mind made up about it about the covid because it's more of a religion now than anything else. Nevermind the numerous serology studies from multiple different countries which show exposure to the virus is highly prevalent with most individuals being asymptomatic. Nevermind the multiple recent studies in the U.S. which show the same. Nevermind the numerous prison facilities, ships or other confined areas which show it being highly contagious yet most asymptomatic. Nevermind studies that show Unless you have multiple co morbidities, if you're under 60 you probably at a greater risk of heart disease than the covid. Nevermind that numerous studies site that transmission from children to adults is low and risk to kids themselves has been pretty low. No no.. Let's close the schools to keep the children safe. Let's close houses of worship and other sociologically important places. Let's close small businesses but let's keep big businesses open. Let's allow the ppl to continue to take public transportation to their big box store as well. Let's indiscriminately quarantine everyone, we most certainly can't have them going to the beach or other outside areas where it's well known UV-C kills the virus and transmission risk outdoors is tiny. Let's jail salon owners operating at home and surfers in the ocean but let's release criminals for politically relevant taking points. Let's make sure we don't quarantine or even test anyone in nursing homes even though they are begging the NY governor to allow it (gotta get to 100k somehow). Yeh no. Every time i see someone outside exercising in mask and gloves i know exactly how and why we get a 2 trillion dollar stimulus package that gives 86k to politicians per month for childcare during this crisis. They're essentially the droid army from clone wars series, just wearing masks. I get why the govt is doing it. It's about power and control. I can say that i never thought scientism would get such a hold on the people though. If i were musk i would've already been gone from California. And if i were the governors in Texas I'd perma-ban any emigrants from NY or CA.
- ryanwaggoner 6y ago
  Most of this is not supported by the evidence, and there’s far more uncertainty in the data and studies than you’re portraying here. But putting that aside, it sounds like you think that politicians are making this seem way worse than it is, in order to exercise more power and control over people’s lives. OK, not the most ridiculous idea I’ve ever heard, even if there are some huge glaring holes in the logic there. What about the scientific and medical community? Are they in on this too? Because I certainly haven’t heard an outcry from epidemiologists and virologists and physicians that we’re grossly overreacting and that the virus isn’t that big of a deal. Why not? It’s ironic, because to my mind, your first paragraph perfectly captures my impression of your position: misinformed but fervently clinging to a religious position that doesn’t seem to match the view of the actual experts.
matz1 6y ago
Of course Tesla factory workers would not be excited about it. With or without pandemic, working in factory is not something most people want to do if they have option to stay home. The factory worker opinion is largely irrelevant, in this context.
litmus 6y ago
Yes, I’m curious about this as well even though its an imperfect world where there probably isn’t an ideal, free environment for expressing their opinions. But if the alternative is staying furloughed then their opinions are of interest regardless. After all, they’re witnesses to how the place operates. What Elon is pushing for seems...no different than what Germany has been doing for at least two weeks? If I’m to understand, people are saying they’re gonna cancel their orders because the company is arguing for a response that is in line with a country (even praised by the American media[0]) that has done a decent job with its pandemic response? This doesn’t seem to be the hill to die on just yet. Reminds me—not being from there—I’m always amazed how warm southern California is in the winter compared to say, many parts of the mediterranean. I mean Los Angeles in January is warmer than Tehran. Too bad the factory isn’t down there. The play should be to avoid a shutdown when the second wave hits, no? You look at the warm far eastern asian countries: Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia. They have a combined population of 580 million with less than 2000 combined deaths. 7 times the population of Germany with a fourth of the deaths of Germany. If they had four times the deaths it would still be impressive, considering they’re mostly dealing with it with less healthcare infrastructure. I do think warmer places would fair better when the second wave hits in the fall. Southern California would be better for a factory. But Texas in that regard would work as well. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/04/angela-merkel-germany-coronavirus-pandemic/610225/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/04/an...
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Has there been any data on the effects of humidity? I wonder if warm and dry vs warm and humid makes a difference.

by firasd 6y ago

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago

As always, the devil is in the details. I'd imagine a heavily automated car factory is actually one of the safer places to work, compared to (say) a hog slaughterhouse or a massage parlor. In a sane world, we'd let workers choose between going to work and staying home without undue penalties either way, but that's not going to happen in 'Murica.

rasengan 6y ago
The problem is that coronavirus lives for days [1] on various surfaces. Is Elon Musk going to be on the factory floor everyday too? Additionally, social distancing doesn’t work [2] and is a suggestion being made by non medical professionals to non medical students. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-suggests-new-coronavirus-may-remain-surfaces-days https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/study-s... [2] https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200414/cdc-covid-19-can-spread-13-feet-travel-on-shoes https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200414/cdc-covid-19-can-sp...
- travisporter 6y ago
  Your second link is an interesting read. Even though the virus was found on the floor and >6 ft away in a Chinese hospital, fortunately no staff were infected. I am not a scientist but I think they just tested for viral fragments versus active infectable viral particles. It’s reassuring but caution is still warranted.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    Moreover comparing a HOSPITAL with a factory is ludicrous as the viral loads are orders of magnitude different.
    - rasengan 6y ago
      Do you have scientific evidence of this?

Taniwha 6y ago

The problem of course is that Tesla is ardently anti-union - the workers have no one to speak on their behalf

cheez 6y ago
unions helped kill the car companies
- smolder 6y ago
  So did the leadership, and every other circumstance that makes the US an expensive place to live and work compared to budding economies.
  - cheez 6y ago
    And this even though we've outsourced inflation.
- frereubu 6y ago
  This does not necessarily follow. Car companies in Germany are heavily unionised and they’re not exactly struggling (at least no more than the entire industry).
  - chongli 6y ago
    Unions have a very different culture in the US as compared to Germany. American unions are in a highly adversarial relationship with their employers. This is compounded by a further adversarial relationship between certain political constituencies in the public and unions. A lot of this can be attributed to the history of the 20th century and the different effects of communism in these respective countries. This may even be reflected in the differing attitudes towards tertiary education and vocational school. It’s a very complicated issue with a lot of history.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    That is because Western Europe has restrictive tariffs on car imports. If you want to put high tariffs on imports in the IS, then the IS industry would re-emerge also - though the price of cars would double.

duckMuppet 6y ago

What they think is about as relevant as opinion polls from a misinformed public. People largely have their mind made up about it about the covid because it's more of a religion now than anything else. Nevermind the numerous serology studies from multiple different countries which show exposure to the virus is highly prevalent with most individuals being asymptomatic. Nevermind the multiple recent studies in the U.S. which show the same. Nevermind the numerous prison facilities, ships or other confined areas which show it being highly contagious yet most asymptomatic. Nevermind studies that show Unless you have multiple co morbidities, if you're under 60 you probably at a greater risk of heart disease than the covid. Nevermind that numerous studies site that transmission from children to adults is low and risk to kids themselves has been pretty low. No no.. Let's close the schools to keep the children safe. Let's close houses of worship and other sociologically important places. Let's close small businesses but let's keep big businesses open. Let's allow the ppl to continue to take public transportation to their big box store as well. Let's indiscriminately quarantine everyone, we most certainly can't have them going to the beach or other outside areas where it's well known UV-C kills the virus and transmission risk outdoors is tiny. Let's jail salon owners operating at home and surfers in the ocean but let's release criminals for politically relevant taking points. Let's make sure we don't quarantine or even test anyone in nursing homes even though they are begging the NY governor to allow it (gotta get to 100k somehow). Yeh no. Every time i see someone outside exercising in mask and gloves i know exactly how and why we get a 2 trillion dollar stimulus package that gives 86k to politicians per month for childcare during this crisis. They're essentially the droid army from clone wars series, just wearing masks. I get why the govt is doing it. It's about power and control. I can say that i never thought scientism would get such a hold on the people though. If i were musk i would've already been gone from California. And if i were the governors in Texas I'd perma-ban any emigrants from NY or CA.

ryanwaggoner 6y ago
Most of this is not supported by the evidence, and there’s far more uncertainty in the data and studies than you’re portraying here. But putting that aside, it sounds like you think that politicians are making this seem way worse than it is, in order to exercise more power and control over people’s lives. OK, not the most ridiculous idea I’ve ever heard, even if there are some huge glaring holes in the logic there. What about the scientific and medical community? Are they in on this too? Because I certainly haven’t heard an outcry from epidemiologists and virologists and physicians that we’re grossly overreacting and that the virus isn’t that big of a deal. Why not? It’s ironic, because to my mind, your first paragraph perfectly captures my impression of your position: misinformed but fervently clinging to a religious position that doesn’t seem to match the view of the actual experts.

matz1 6y ago

Of course Tesla factory workers would not be excited about it. With or without pandemic, working in factory is not something most people want to do if they have option to stay home. The factory worker opinion is largely irrelevant, in this context.

litmus 6y ago

Yes, I’m curious about this as well even though its an imperfect world where there probably isn’t an ideal, free environment for expressing their opinions. But if the alternative is staying furloughed then their opinions are of interest regardless. After all, they’re witnesses to how the place operates. What Elon is pushing for seems...no different than what Germany has been doing for at least two weeks? If I’m to understand, people are saying they’re gonna cancel their orders because the company is arguing for a response that is in line with a country (even praised by the American media[0]) that has done a decent job with its pandemic response? This doesn’t seem to be the hill to die on just yet. Reminds me—not being from there—I’m always amazed how warm southern California is in the winter compared to say, many parts of the mediterranean. I mean Los Angeles in January is warmer than Tehran. Too bad the factory isn’t down there. The play should be to avoid a shutdown when the second wave hits, no? You look at the warm far eastern asian countries: Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia. They have a combined population of 580 million with less than 2000 combined deaths. 7 times the population of Germany with a fourth of the deaths of Germany. If they had four times the deaths it would still be impressive, considering they’re mostly dealing with it with less healthcare infrastructure. I do think warmer places would fair better when the second wave hits in the fall. Southern California would be better for a factory. But Texas in that regard would work as well. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/04/angela-merkel-germany-coronavirus-pandemic/610225/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/04/an...

nitrogen 6y ago
Has there been any data on the effects of humidity? I wonder if warm and dry vs warm and humid makes a difference.