8 ms·

Debian 10.4

126 points by laqq3 6y ago

dilandau 6y ago
What would I do without you, Debian? Thanks team for all the work, if you happen to see this. It is very appreciated.
- sha1 6y ago
  Hear! hear!
- jbverschoor 6y ago
  For me it was: Redhat-> Slackware -> FreeBSD -> Debian I should probably donate
  - Insanity 6y ago
    Fedora -> OpenSUSE -> Ubuntu -> Debian here :P
  - wtracy 6y ago
    Take a look at the website for Debian's parent organization, Software In The Public Interest, and see all the projects they are responsible for: https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/ https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/ Contributing is not a bad idea.
asveikau 6y ago
The first Debian release I used was slink (released March 1999). I stopped using debian on most of my personal machines when they switched to systemd. This is because a few of them refused to boot or exhibited strange init related bugs after the switch.
- FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
  My first Debian was also Slink, installed from a box of floppies onto a 486. Had to use rawrite to put the disk image onto the floppies. That box of floppies is still around here somewhere, though the 486 is long gone.
  - IronBacon 6y ago
    I remember the troubles using "dselect" without a stable internet connection, "apt" came quite later (with Potato or Woody, don't recall). On the other hand, I never had the need to try something else...
    - FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
      The thing that most impressed me about the install was the experimental hardware detection. I had a list of all she system hardware and the installer only missed a single component. Even then, it was an alternate recommendation.
    - asveikau 6y ago
      I think apt was actually in slink. I remember the dist-upgrade to potato over a modem. It was so far ahead of the rpm based distros then. But the installer still dropped you into dselect for a long time thereafter. Once it was installed it was smooth sailing.
- Iwan-Zotow 6y ago
  Younglings... 0.93r5
  - chx 6y ago
    We can play this game, I started on Linux with 0.99pl15 but I can pretty much guarantee you given this place someone will show up within an hour who got on the train in '92 and within a day someone who did in '91. Related: on the occassion of Little Richard dying I have reflected on how every Beatles album was released closer to World War I than today. (Almost, Abbey Road needs a few more months, it'll be true on Aug 13.)
    - dleslie 6y ago
      /me waves I remember the arrival of Linux. I'm not even all that old, but time sure does fly.
    - asveikau 6y ago
      Let It Be was a year after Abbey Road, in 1970. Very underrated album too.
      - chx 6y ago
        Ah yes, sorry I forgot. Well then we have one more year left. Nonetheless... I was more trying to place Beatles as "wow it was that long ago??"
    - Iwan-Zotow 6y ago
      > I started on Linux with 0.99pl15 same here First distro was slackware, 0.99pl15, bunch of floppies
- rleigh 6y ago
  Snap. It's only the last year I chucked away my slink, potato and woody CDs. I had terrible problems with NFS and systemd. In fact, when testing Ubuntu 20.04 in a VM, the problems are still there even today. It's not freezing on boot as regularly, but it's still unpredictable and often freezes on shutdown.
kelnos 6y ago
I cut my teeth on Red Hat (before Fedora was a thing), used Gentoo for a few years when I cutely believed that waiting hours for compiles to finish was fun and useful, but for the last 8-10 years I've been on Debian. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done. For my laptop I usually run testing, and then stick with stable for 6 months or so after it's released, before switching back to testing. For me, it's a good balance between stability and having recent versions of applications.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  I use both gentoo and debian. I find it hard for either one to replace the other. I can't let go of the control gentoo gives me and as you noted the smooth and stable binary based debian let's you get the job done fast with little hustle. I try to mix and match, using gentoo as a minimalist and debian as a full blown desktop or prod network(http,etc...) server.
  - hiq 6y ago
    In which cases do you need the minimalism Gentoo provides?
    - kakwa_ 6y ago
      I've seen companies using Gentoo (with a lot of tooling around it) in specialized context. Particularly in military contracts, Gentoo brings you several things: 1) you have a full audit trace from the compilation, and in paranoid situation, it's a huge plus. 2) it permits you to minimize the OS footprint quite a lot (feature flags), which helps improving security (less exposure). 3) it permits an high degree of customization, including the combination of software versions used. 4) it's relatively easy to import a patch and maintain an overlay yourself. We have to keep in mind the constrains of Military contracts: The systems tends to be quite complex, validation is quite lengthy, updates are far in between, they tend to use specialized/weird/not powerful hardware which might need some tweaking, and the level of traceability is generally quite high.
    - badrabbit 6y ago
neogodless 6y ago
As a relative Linux newbie, who's running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on two laptops at home, would there be any advantages to Debian 10.4 over Ubuntu 20.04? (I assume at least some of that answer would depend on my use cases and hardware, but if you have general insights to the differences, some of us might find that useful!)
- rjeli 6y ago
  No ads in your MOTD
  - neogodless 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motd_(Unix) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motd_(Unix) Never heard of MOTD before. I'll keep an eye out for it since I haven't encountered it yet (as a newb!) Presumably getting ads is pretty annoying!
    - ColanR 6y ago
      It is, and it's one of the more annoying MOTDs I've encountered. You won't see it unless you get rid of the login manager and login at the terminal. Or, use the server edition.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - jlgaddis 6y ago
        > You won't see it unless you get rid of the login manager and login at the terminal. Or, use the server edition. And even though you don't see it, it's still there -- on every Ubuntu install (by default) -- phoning home to Canonical (every 12 hours, if memory serves). (Some users may not mind, of course, but they certainly don't go out of their way to let you know about it beforehand, which is my major issue with it.)
        6y ago
Koshkin 6y ago
My problem with Debian (and Ubuntu) has been that often when I want to install a seemingly little piece of software, be it a library or a program, I end up getting the whole slew of stuff - frameworks, daemons, even language processors I haven't suspected existed. (This may not be the distro's problem, but I believe at least some of those things may be optional, and I would have liked to treat them as such.)
- pengaru 6y ago
  --no-install-recommends
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  You can’t even install a GUI without getting every web browser, mail client, office suite, and more under the sun.
  - jlgaddis 6y ago
    You can, but it does require one to RTFM and know/learn about the available installation options. My automated "preseed" installs are quite minimal. I don't recall exactly how many packages I end up with on a new install but I think it was 224 -- much fewer than what you'll end up with when doing a typical installation.
  - markosaric 6y ago
    If you go with the NetInst ISO you can install minimal Gnome (or whichever desktop environment you prefer) which comes without any additional software. You have to untick everything on the last step where it asks you to choose your DE, log in when the install is finished and then install gnome-core using apt install gnome-core. This is Gnome with Gnome Software, Gnome Terminal and other major pieces but without mail client, office, games etc.
- jlgaddis 6y ago
  You can avoid installing non-required dependencies by adding the following (based on your preferences and/or use case) to a file in the /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ directory: APT::Install-Recommends "false"; APT::Install-Suggests "false"; Alternatively, you can do as pengaru suggested and the pass "--no-install-recommends" and/or "--no-install-suggests" parameters when installing packages, as described in the apt-get man page [0]. --- [0]: https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt-get.8.en.html https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt-get.8.en.html
Mave83 6y ago
debian is awesome.
- stOneskull 6y ago
  it really is. thank you to the team for a great OS and for keeping the spirit of ian murdock alive. the tough decision for me right now on my laptop, is whether to use MX Linux, which has been great the last few years, or this Linux Mint Debian Edition, which i've been trying since the latest release and is very nice.
pcdoodle 6y ago
I've actually been using Raspbian Desktop installed on a laptop to develop software for raspberry pi. For some reason it's faster compiling xojo apps than windows or mac. Debian FTW!
paines 6y ago
I used to love the shit out of Debian., but nowadays, that I am really startled and shocked what it had become. Try to get nvidia graphics running on an optimus based laptop, and you will find yourself in a midst of an multiple hour long try and error prone session of head-shaking and cursing. Graphics installer -> no touchpad?!?!? Blueutooth A2DP -> fix it by hand..... This list goes on and on and on...
- kakwa_ 6y ago
  Well, it's hardly a new issue. Hardware support and lack of polishing has always been an issue in the Linux world and all distributions have suffered from it one way or another. Having spent quite a lot of time in the past on this kind of issues, I do sympathize. But from my experience, things actually tends to get a bit better now days, for example, I'm far less cautious about avoiding Broadcom ethernet and wifi cards as they generally tends to work out of the box today (even if I still prefer Intel for these). Fighting hardware/default configuration issues is unfortunately be part of the game, but in my experience, it's a game I play less and less often.
- Dunedan 6y ago
  I built a PC in 2005 with an Nvidia graphics card and ran Debian on it exclusively. I had a lot of trouble with that graphics card over the years, but that wasn't caused by Debian, but rather by Nvidia, because they did neither offer nor even support open source drivers. My conclusion was to not buy any Nvidia product again, until they offer proper open source drivers for it. Since I retired this PC I haven't owned any Nvidia product anymore and I couldn't be happier. Sure the drivers for other graphics cards aren't perfect either, but at least I don't have to deal with binary blobs anymore where nobody except of the manufacturer can fix issues.
teddyh 6y ago
Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.4, is not a new major release of Debian.
- bzb3 6y ago
  So your point is that a .x release is a minor, point release? Isn't that obvious by itself?
  - teddyh 6y ago
    It didn’t use to be that way; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still be used to the first minor version number being a major release, even though it is not true anymore.

Debian 10.4

126 points by laqq3 6y ago

dilandau 6y ago

What would I do without you, Debian? Thanks team for all the work, if you happen to see this. It is very appreciated.

sha1 6y ago
Hear! hear!
jbverschoor 6y ago
For me it was: Redhat-> Slackware -> FreeBSD -> Debian I should probably donate
- Insanity 6y ago
  Fedora -> OpenSUSE -> Ubuntu -> Debian here :P
- wtracy 6y ago
  Take a look at the website for Debian's parent organization, Software In The Public Interest, and see all the projects they are responsible for: https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/ https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/ Contributing is not a bad idea.

asveikau 6y ago

The first Debian release I used was slink (released March 1999). I stopped using debian on most of my personal machines when they switched to systemd. This is because a few of them refused to boot or exhibited strange init related bugs after the switch.

FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
My first Debian was also Slink, installed from a box of floppies onto a 486. Had to use rawrite to put the disk image onto the floppies. That box of floppies is still around here somewhere, though the 486 is long gone.
- IronBacon 6y ago
  I remember the troubles using "dselect" without a stable internet connection, "apt" came quite later (with Potato or Woody, don't recall). On the other hand, I never had the need to try something else...
  - FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
    The thing that most impressed me about the install was the experimental hardware detection. I had a list of all she system hardware and the installer only missed a single component. Even then, it was an alternate recommendation.
  - asveikau 6y ago
    I think apt was actually in slink. I remember the dist-upgrade to potato over a modem. It was so far ahead of the rpm based distros then. But the installer still dropped you into dselect for a long time thereafter. Once it was installed it was smooth sailing.
Iwan-Zotow 6y ago
Younglings... 0.93r5
- chx 6y ago
  We can play this game, I started on Linux with 0.99pl15 but I can pretty much guarantee you given this place someone will show up within an hour who got on the train in '92 and within a day someone who did in '91. Related: on the occassion of Little Richard dying I have reflected on how every Beatles album was released closer to World War I than today. (Almost, Abbey Road needs a few more months, it'll be true on Aug 13.)
  - dleslie 6y ago
    /me waves I remember the arrival of Linux. I'm not even all that old, but time sure does fly.
  - asveikau 6y ago
    Let It Be was a year after Abbey Road, in 1970. Very underrated album too.
    - chx 6y ago
      Ah yes, sorry I forgot. Well then we have one more year left. Nonetheless... I was more trying to place Beatles as "wow it was that long ago??"
  - Iwan-Zotow 6y ago
    > I started on Linux with 0.99pl15 same here First distro was slackware, 0.99pl15, bunch of floppies
rleigh 6y ago
Snap. It's only the last year I chucked away my slink, potato and woody CDs. I had terrible problems with NFS and systemd. In fact, when testing Ubuntu 20.04 in a VM, the problems are still there even today. It's not freezing on boot as regularly, but it's still unpredictable and often freezes on shutdown.

kelnos 6y ago

I cut my teeth on Red Hat (before Fedora was a thing), used Gentoo for a few years when I cutely believed that waiting hours for compiles to finish was fun and useful, but for the last 8-10 years I've been on Debian. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done. For my laptop I usually run testing, and then stick with stable for 6 months or so after it's released, before switching back to testing. For me, it's a good balance between stability and having recent versions of applications.

badrabbit 6y ago
I use both gentoo and debian. I find it hard for either one to replace the other. I can't let go of the control gentoo gives me and as you noted the smooth and stable binary based debian let's you get the job done fast with little hustle. I try to mix and match, using gentoo as a minimalist and debian as a full blown desktop or prod network(http,etc...) server.
- hiq 6y ago
  In which cases do you need the minimalism Gentoo provides?
  - kakwa_ 6y ago
    I've seen companies using Gentoo (with a lot of tooling around it) in specialized context. Particularly in military contracts, Gentoo brings you several things: 1) you have a full audit trace from the compilation, and in paranoid situation, it's a huge plus. 2) it permits you to minimize the OS footprint quite a lot (feature flags), which helps improving security (less exposure). 3) it permits an high degree of customization, including the combination of software versions used. 4) it's relatively easy to import a patch and maintain an overlay yourself. We have to keep in mind the constrains of Military contracts: The systems tends to be quite complex, validation is quite lengthy, updates are far in between, they tend to use specialized/weird/not powerful hardware which might need some tweaking, and the level of traceability is generally quite high.
  - badrabbit 6y ago

neogodless 6y ago

As a relative Linux newbie, who's running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on two laptops at home, would there be any advantages to Debian 10.4 over Ubuntu 20.04? (I assume at least some of that answer would depend on my use cases and hardware, but if you have general insights to the differences, some of us might find that useful!)

rjeli 6y ago
No ads in your MOTD
- neogodless 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motd_(Unix) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motd_(Unix) Never heard of MOTD before. I'll keep an eye out for it since I haven't encountered it yet (as a newb!) Presumably getting ads is pretty annoying!
  - ColanR 6y ago
    It is, and it's one of the more annoying MOTDs I've encountered. You won't see it unless you get rid of the login manager and login at the terminal. Or, use the server edition.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - jlgaddis 6y ago
      > You won't see it unless you get rid of the login manager and login at the terminal. Or, use the server edition. And even though you don't see it, it's still there -- on every Ubuntu install (by default) -- phoning home to Canonical (every 12 hours, if memory serves). (Some users may not mind, of course, but they certainly don't go out of their way to let you know about it beforehand, which is my major issue with it.)
      - 6y ago

Koshkin 6y ago

My problem with Debian (and Ubuntu) has been that often when I want to install a seemingly little piece of software, be it a library or a program, I end up getting the whole slew of stuff - frameworks, daemons, even language processors I haven't suspected existed. (This may not be the distro's problem, but I believe at least some of those things may be optional, and I would have liked to treat them as such.)

pengaru 6y ago
--no-install-recommends
ComputerGuru 6y ago
You can’t even install a GUI without getting every web browser, mail client, office suite, and more under the sun.
- jlgaddis 6y ago
  You can, but it does require one to RTFM and know/learn about the available installation options. My automated "preseed" installs are quite minimal. I don't recall exactly how many packages I end up with on a new install but I think it was 224 -- much fewer than what you'll end up with when doing a typical installation.
- markosaric 6y ago
  If you go with the NetInst ISO you can install minimal Gnome (or whichever desktop environment you prefer) which comes without any additional software. You have to untick everything on the last step where it asks you to choose your DE, log in when the install is finished and then install gnome-core using apt install gnome-core. This is Gnome with Gnome Software, Gnome Terminal and other major pieces but without mail client, office, games etc.
jlgaddis 6y ago
You can avoid installing non-required dependencies by adding the following (based on your preferences and/or use case) to a file in the /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ directory: APT::Install-Recommends "false"; APT::Install-Suggests "false"; Alternatively, you can do as pengaru suggested and the pass "--no-install-recommends" and/or "--no-install-suggests" parameters when installing packages, as described in the apt-get man page [0]. --- [0]: https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt-get.8.en.html https://manpages.debian.org/buster/apt/apt-get.8.en.html

Mave83 6y ago

debian is awesome.

stOneskull 6y ago
it really is. thank you to the team for a great OS and for keeping the spirit of ian murdock alive. the tough decision for me right now on my laptop, is whether to use MX Linux, which has been great the last few years, or this Linux Mint Debian Edition, which i've been trying since the latest release and is very nice.

pcdoodle 6y ago

I've actually been using Raspbian Desktop installed on a laptop to develop software for raspberry pi. For some reason it's faster compiling xojo apps than windows or mac. Debian FTW!

paines 6y ago

I used to love the shit out of Debian., but nowadays, that I am really startled and shocked what it had become. Try to get nvidia graphics running on an optimus based laptop, and you will find yourself in a midst of an multiple hour long try and error prone session of head-shaking and cursing. Graphics installer -> no touchpad?!?!? Blueutooth A2DP -> fix it by hand..... This list goes on and on and on...

kakwa_ 6y ago
Well, it's hardly a new issue. Hardware support and lack of polishing has always been an issue in the Linux world and all distributions have suffered from it one way or another. Having spent quite a lot of time in the past on this kind of issues, I do sympathize. But from my experience, things actually tends to get a bit better now days, for example, I'm far less cautious about avoiding Broadcom ethernet and wifi cards as they generally tends to work out of the box today (even if I still prefer Intel for these). Fighting hardware/default configuration issues is unfortunately be part of the game, but in my experience, it's a game I play less and less often.
Dunedan 6y ago
I built a PC in 2005 with an Nvidia graphics card and ran Debian on it exclusively. I had a lot of trouble with that graphics card over the years, but that wasn't caused by Debian, but rather by Nvidia, because they did neither offer nor even support open source drivers. My conclusion was to not buy any Nvidia product again, until they offer proper open source drivers for it. Since I retired this PC I haven't owned any Nvidia product anymore and I couldn't be happier. Sure the drivers for other graphics cards aren't perfect either, but at least I don't have to deal with binary blobs anymore where nobody except of the manufacturer can fix issues.

teddyh 6y ago

Please note: Starting with Debian 7, the minor number is not part of the Debian release number, and numbers with a minor component like 9.4 or 9.7 now indicate a point release. Basically, only security updates and major bug fixes, with new updated installation media images. This, 10.4, is not a new major release of Debian.

bzb3 6y ago
So your point is that a .x release is a minor, point release? Isn't that obvious by itself?
- teddyh 6y ago
  It didn’t use to be that way; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still be used to the first minor version number being a major release, even though it is not true anymore.