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One challenge here is that there is that a lot of disorders are diagnosed with reference to moods and life experiences. An ADHDer who repeatedly finds that the

One challenge here is that there is that a lot of disorders are diagnosed with reference to moods and life experiences. An ADHDer who repeatedly finds that their distractibility leads to them to fail at obvious tasks and disappoint the people around them can very easily develop symptoms of depression. Would that require having the biological underpinnings of depression?

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
I understand Clinical Depression is more than just feeling down, “depressed”, or demotivated - it’s an actual depression in brain activity (which tends to manifest itself as feelings of sadness, but not necessarily - and people with CD can still laugh, smile, and have a good time... at times). (I wish they’d change the name of CD to something that avoids the layperson’s concept of “depression” - that alone would help the well-meaning but ignorant people who think it’s just a matter of finding a way to cheer oneself up and certainly nothing to do with serotonin...).
- esotericn 6y ago
  Depression is not sadness, it is emptiness.
- Ensorceled 6y ago
  Clinical depression is often associated the ADHD exactly as the parent said, so please leave off with the “well actually” explanation. https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/depression-adhd-link https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/depression-adhd-link
  - jdudhebee 6y ago
    It seems like you're the one who should be laying off the "well actually" explanations. The example they were responding to, as it was laid out, is not an example of clinical depression. Just because a person in with adhd is depressed due to factors catalyzed by their adhd does not mean they have clinical depression.
    - username90 6y ago
      > The example they were responding to, as it was laid out, is not an example of clinical depression. There is nothing in the original post that was wrong about clinical depression.
    - Ensorceled 6y ago
      Did you even read the link I posted? ADHD and Clinical Depression are sometimes co-morbid for exactly the reason you just strongly asserted they are not.
    - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
      I prefaced my answer with “I understand that...” because I’m aware I might be wrong. I wasn’t being assertive or authoritative. I welcome the feedback and corrections posted in the replies to my comment.
- mnm1 6y ago
  Probably because it has nothing to do with serotonin as far as science has been able to show. If I'm wrong, please provide a link because I've been looking for that link now for well over a decade.
jotm 6y ago
Depression and anxiety - due to always failing, missing deadlines, disappointing people, anxiety comes anytime one even thinks of doing something.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
I wonder about this a lot. I used to be a hopelessly optimistic, positive, happy person despite constant failure. This was of course due to my ADHD, whatever that really is. Over time though, a deep depression, loss of identity, and loss of optimism has really overwhelmed the old me. But where did that begin? Was it there all along? It certainly doesn't seem like it. It isn't rose colored glasses; I had a pretty tough time as a kid. Somehow I was sure everything would be great. Now great things often don't seem as good as they are. I really struggle to understand where that comes from so I can handle it better. I do believe it developed over time, though. I think it can be reversed. Perhaps that's just a lingering thread of optimism.
- james_s_tayler 6y ago
  I can relate. I think the daydreams contribute largely to the optimism. When you're young you still have all the opportunity. As you go through life it either does or doesn't match the daydreams. You also get an updated sense of how reality is likely to play out. It can dampen the spirit.
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  I can also relate, but luckily I (hope) that I managed to catch this happening in time and nipped it in the bud. It took a lot of soul searching (plus professional help) to get me back on track. I started to think that I was a fucking idiot for being incapable of doing what was expected of me, and what I wanted to do. All my grand plans and projects and ideas seemed to just slip through my fingers, despite best efforts I couldn't (and still struggle to) get out of bed in the morning and get to work on time. It was frustrating. For me it started when I finished university and I realised I had me entire life ahead of me, and no idea what to do with it. As a kid, sure I had plenty of screwups and a tough time, but I always saw the light at the end of the tunnel, I just had to get through my assignments and exams, finish school, finish university, get a job. Once I had done all that I sort of lost all purpose and identity, I had no idea who I was supposed to be. I had grown up with the concept that I was going to get my degree and find a job, then marry some girl, buy a house and have some kids and I'd live happily ever after, like I thought my parents did. Turns out that's not what I wanted in life, and I really struggled to find a purpose. I think this is incredibly common for all sorts of people with different mental health issues, not just ADHD, I know plenty of people who've experienced the same descent into a hopeless state. Some turn to Jesus, some to drugs, others just say fuck it and kill themselves.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
As far as I'm aware (and from what my doctor has told me), that's different to Clinical Depression/Major Depressive Disorder. One of the key diagnostic criteria of Clinical Depression is a state of depressed mood without clear cause. The treatment for depression caused by other mental health conditions (e.g. ADHD) and Clinical Depression are very different, although they are often comorbid. Generally successful treatment of the underlying condition also makes the depression go away. Giving antidepressants to someone who has ADHD with depressive symptoms (without treating the ADHD, i.e. it's undiagnosed) generally doesn't alleviate the depressive symptoms. It isn't strictly depression that's a diagnostic criteria for a lot of disorders/conditions, but rather a negative impact on normal functioning and everyday life. Some people are just rendered incapable due to their mental health, unable to hold a steady job or impulsive to the point of committing assault or other crimes. Some people just take it on the chin without getting depressed about it, but others (those with the biological underpinnings of depression I suppose) get depressed or anxious. There's plenty of chronically underachieving people with ADHD who are perfectly happy, and others who experience significant distress.
- afarrell 6y ago
  > Giving antidepressants to someone who has ADHD with depressive symptoms (without treating the ADHD, i.e. it's undiagnosed) generally doesn't alleviate the depressive symptoms. You have captured my point exactly. > Clinical Depression is a state of depressed mood without clear cause. Sure. It is easy to have a depressed mood without clear cause if you just fail at identifying the cause. Back when I didn't know how to identify aircraft, I saw unidentified flying objects pretty often.

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

I understand Clinical Depression is more than just feeling down, “depressed”, or demotivated - it’s an actual depression in brain activity (which tends to manifest itself as feelings of sadness, but not necessarily - and people with CD can still laugh, smile, and have a good time... at times). (I wish they’d change the name of CD to something that avoids the layperson’s concept of “depression” - that alone would help the well-meaning but ignorant people who think it’s just a matter of finding a way to cheer oneself up and certainly nothing to do with serotonin...).

esotericn 6y ago
Depression is not sadness, it is emptiness.
Ensorceled 6y ago
Clinical depression is often associated the ADHD exactly as the parent said, so please leave off with the “well actually” explanation. https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/depression-adhd-link https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/depression-adhd-link
- jdudhebee 6y ago
  It seems like you're the one who should be laying off the "well actually" explanations. The example they were responding to, as it was laid out, is not an example of clinical depression. Just because a person in with adhd is depressed due to factors catalyzed by their adhd does not mean they have clinical depression.
  - username90 6y ago
    > The example they were responding to, as it was laid out, is not an example of clinical depression. There is nothing in the original post that was wrong about clinical depression.
  - Ensorceled 6y ago
    Did you even read the link I posted? ADHD and Clinical Depression are sometimes co-morbid for exactly the reason you just strongly asserted they are not.
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
    I prefaced my answer with “I understand that...” because I’m aware I might be wrong. I wasn’t being assertive or authoritative. I welcome the feedback and corrections posted in the replies to my comment.
mnm1 6y ago
Probably because it has nothing to do with serotonin as far as science has been able to show. If I'm wrong, please provide a link because I've been looking for that link now for well over a decade.

jotm 6y ago

Depression and anxiety - due to always failing, missing deadlines, disappointing people, anxiety comes anytime one even thinks of doing something.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

I wonder about this a lot. I used to be a hopelessly optimistic, positive, happy person despite constant failure. This was of course due to my ADHD, whatever that really is. Over time though, a deep depression, loss of identity, and loss of optimism has really overwhelmed the old me. But where did that begin? Was it there all along? It certainly doesn't seem like it. It isn't rose colored glasses; I had a pretty tough time as a kid. Somehow I was sure everything would be great. Now great things often don't seem as good as they are. I really struggle to understand where that comes from so I can handle it better. I do believe it developed over time, though. I think it can be reversed. Perhaps that's just a lingering thread of optimism.

james_s_tayler 6y ago
I can relate. I think the daydreams contribute largely to the optimism. When you're young you still have all the opportunity. As you go through life it either does or doesn't match the daydreams. You also get an updated sense of how reality is likely to play out. It can dampen the spirit.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
I can also relate, but luckily I (hope) that I managed to catch this happening in time and nipped it in the bud. It took a lot of soul searching (plus professional help) to get me back on track. I started to think that I was a fucking idiot for being incapable of doing what was expected of me, and what I wanted to do. All my grand plans and projects and ideas seemed to just slip through my fingers, despite best efforts I couldn't (and still struggle to) get out of bed in the morning and get to work on time. It was frustrating. For me it started when I finished university and I realised I had me entire life ahead of me, and no idea what to do with it. As a kid, sure I had plenty of screwups and a tough time, but I always saw the light at the end of the tunnel, I just had to get through my assignments and exams, finish school, finish university, get a job. Once I had done all that I sort of lost all purpose and identity, I had no idea who I was supposed to be. I had grown up with the concept that I was going to get my degree and find a job, then marry some girl, buy a house and have some kids and I'd live happily ever after, like I thought my parents did. Turns out that's not what I wanted in life, and I really struggled to find a purpose. I think this is incredibly common for all sorts of people with different mental health issues, not just ADHD, I know plenty of people who've experienced the same descent into a hopeless state. Some turn to Jesus, some to drugs, others just say fuck it and kill themselves.

toomanybeersies 6y ago

As far as I'm aware (and from what my doctor has told me), that's different to Clinical Depression/Major Depressive Disorder. One of the key diagnostic criteria of Clinical Depression is a state of depressed mood without clear cause. The treatment for depression caused by other mental health conditions (e.g. ADHD) and Clinical Depression are very different, although they are often comorbid. Generally successful treatment of the underlying condition also makes the depression go away. Giving antidepressants to someone who has ADHD with depressive symptoms (without treating the ADHD, i.e. it's undiagnosed) generally doesn't alleviate the depressive symptoms. It isn't strictly depression that's a diagnostic criteria for a lot of disorders/conditions, but rather a negative impact on normal functioning and everyday life. Some people are just rendered incapable due to their mental health, unable to hold a steady job or impulsive to the point of committing assault or other crimes. Some people just take it on the chin without getting depressed about it, but others (those with the biological underpinnings of depression I suppose) get depressed or anxious. There's plenty of chronically underachieving people with ADHD who are perfectly happy, and others who experience significant distress.

afarrell 6y ago
> Giving antidepressants to someone who has ADHD with depressive symptoms (without treating the ADHD, i.e. it's undiagnosed) generally doesn't alleviate the depressive symptoms. You have captured my point exactly. > Clinical Depression is a state of depressed mood without clear cause. Sure. It is easy to have a depressed mood without clear cause if you just fail at identifying the cause. Back when I didn't know how to identify aircraft, I saw unidentified flying objects pretty often.