4 ms·

I'm not an American but by the look of it the restrictions in California are insane when you look at their case numbers. I'm comparing it with European countrie

I'm not an American but by the look of it the restrictions in California are insane when you look at their case numbers. I'm comparing it with European countries where I live but California can't close their borders either to control the flow of infected from other places.

birdyrooster 6y ago
Why else do you think we've managed to keep it in control despite having some dense city centers? Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him. People driving Tesla, I'll be thinking of this when I see you behind the wheel.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  The question is, to what end? Unless the state remains closed for the next 12 months (ie: until a successful vaccine exists in mass quantities) at some point the numbers will go up. So staying closed longer doesn't really help (as long as rates are kept under "hospitals implode" levels) and just ensure an even larger economic decimation. edit: As for your emotional point, how many dead black and latino Californians will there be over the next 30 years due to the massive increase in poverty?
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    You don't think there would be an equally massive increase in poverty for black and latino families to lose bread winners who are forced to go back to work during unsafe conditions? The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work. This is about valuing and protecting lives.
    - marcinzm 6y ago
      >You don't think there would be an equally massive increase in poverty for black and latino families to lose bread winners who are forced to go back to work during unsafe conditions? The mortality rate for working age people isn't very high so, no, I doubt the economic impact will be as great. The deaths would be mainly among older non-working relatives. Which is a horrible thing from a human perspective but if you want to argue cold numbers that's what they are. >The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work. And I also wish unicorns were real. They're not. The federal government won't do anything except open a bottle of champagne for every 10000 dead democrats. The state government lacks the money to actually do anything.
    - syspec 6y ago
      Please stop spreading this idea, that everyone who is hispanic is poor. Not everyone who is hispanic was born poor, or is poor. It really really does more harm than good. It's a mild form of racism, the same as the people who spout crime statistics
      - birdyrooster 6y ago
        > that everyone who is hispanic is poor I never spread this idea. We both agree that not everyone who is hispanic was born poor, or is poor. Not that I want to share my identity, but I am a living example of this.
      - mydongle 6y ago
        But you do recognize that more hispanics are poorer on average than some other races, for example whites, right? So on average, a lot of Hispanic families will be disproportionately affected by having to go to work during unsafe conditions compared to white families who are secure enough to shelter at home until the pandemic boils over. This is literally the basis of systemic/institutional racism/inequalities. You can't deny one and not the other.
        syspec 6y ago
        I never implied there WAS systemic/institutional racism/inequalities. That's your quote not mine. My point is much simpler. Please stop this idea that all hispanic people are poor, or were born poor
        ac29 6y ago
        > Please stop this idea that all hispanic people are poor, or were born poor. That was never said, you're arguing against a straw man. Hispanic people in the US, as a race, have the lowest median and average income of any racial group [0]. That doesn't mean that they are all poor, or that there is something inherently wrong with them, its just a statement of fact. [0] https://dqydj.com/income-by-race/ https://dqydj.com/income-by-race/
        6y ago
- valachio 6y ago
  I didn't know covid only killed black and latino people
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    San Francisco, Latino's are 30% of the population. 60% of the COVID19 cases.
    - herdodoodo 6y ago
      why is this?
- sfj 6y ago
  > Why else do you think we've managed to keep it in control despite having some dense city centers? I've got a tiger repelling rock to sell you, only $6 Trillion. Seriously, why does everyone need to stay at home, rather than those that feel vulnerable decide for themselves? We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society. Also, as a bonus, we'd reach herd immunity much faster. > Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him. He'd rather save his business. And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    > tiger repelling rock Mitigation tactics like shelter in place, ppe, and physical distancing are working. Tiger repelling rock would make sense if there was no data supporting this thesis. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-cases-drop-by-up-to-44-due-to-shelter-in-place-orders-study-drawing-on-cdc-data-shows-2020-05-04 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-cases-drop-by-... > decide for themselves They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing. > We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society. Sounds like an interesting proposal, but that is another topic altogether. > And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California? I don't have any data to tell you who that would be.
    - sfj 6y ago
      > Mitigation tactics like shelter in place, ppe, and physical distancing are working. Tiger repelling rock would make sense if there was no data supporting this thesis. It's the same as "You don't see any tigers around do you?" It's anecdotal. How do you know which of what you said is doing it, Shelter in place, ppe, physical distancing, or something else? You have no idea. >> decide for themselves >They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing. Hey, thanks for snipping out the subject of "those that feel vulnerable" and implying I was talking about the majority of voters. And, you also know the person that ordered the stay at home order was appointed right? >> And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California? > I don't have any data to tell you who that would be. A state without private enterprise is not a good one for those "10,000 latinos and blacks" you worry so much about.
iancmceachern 6y ago
Precisely - case numbers are good because of the restrictions.
- phasnox 6y ago
  This statement sounds like Aristotle spontaneous generation.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
  But as I said your state borders are opened, so what's the end game? The whole Europe didn't just stop manufacturing (as a comparison), they just implemented distancing and sanitation rules etc.
- tdfx 6y ago
  I hear this regurgitated very often but I've never seen any evidence of this. Basic reasoning follows that there would be some drop in cases as a result of the forced closure of all non-essential businesses, but due to the universal nature of the closures I'm not aware of any way to quantify how much it's helping. It could very well be that widespread social distancing and voluntary measures could produce a similar outcome. Is there any study that confirms or debunks this?
  - iancmceachern 6y ago
    I'm not familiar with one, and would think it would be very hard to create the controlled circumstances to so so without so many other variables between the study areas confounding the data too much.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    You can generally infer it from restrictions in places that had high case counts and then enforced stay at home measures. Looking at the per-day growth rates in NYC, Italy, LA, etc. before and after the instantiation of stay at home measures is pretty convincing. We'll probably have some more data as places start to reopen.

birdyrooster 6y ago

Why else do you think we've managed to keep it in control despite having some dense city centers? Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him. People driving Tesla, I'll be thinking of this when I see you behind the wheel.

marcinzm 6y ago
The question is, to what end? Unless the state remains closed for the next 12 months (ie: until a successful vaccine exists in mass quantities) at some point the numbers will go up. So staying closed longer doesn't really help (as long as rates are kept under "hospitals implode" levels) and just ensure an even larger economic decimation. edit: As for your emotional point, how many dead black and latino Californians will there be over the next 30 years due to the massive increase in poverty?
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  You don't think there would be an equally massive increase in poverty for black and latino families to lose bread winners who are forced to go back to work during unsafe conditions? The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work. This is about valuing and protecting lives.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    >You don't think there would be an equally massive increase in poverty for black and latino families to lose bread winners who are forced to go back to work during unsafe conditions? The mortality rate for working age people isn't very high so, no, I doubt the economic impact will be as great. The deaths would be mainly among older non-working relatives. Which is a horrible thing from a human perspective but if you want to argue cold numbers that's what they are. >The Federal and State governments have the capability of protecting their workers instead of requiring them to work. And I also wish unicorns were real. They're not. The federal government won't do anything except open a bottle of champagne for every 10000 dead democrats. The state government lacks the money to actually do anything.
  - syspec 6y ago
    Please stop spreading this idea, that everyone who is hispanic is poor. Not everyone who is hispanic was born poor, or is poor. It really really does more harm than good. It's a mild form of racism, the same as the people who spout crime statistics
    - birdyrooster 6y ago
      > that everyone who is hispanic is poor I never spread this idea. We both agree that not everyone who is hispanic was born poor, or is poor. Not that I want to share my identity, but I am a living example of this.
    - mydongle 6y ago
      But you do recognize that more hispanics are poorer on average than some other races, for example whites, right? So on average, a lot of Hispanic families will be disproportionately affected by having to go to work during unsafe conditions compared to white families who are secure enough to shelter at home until the pandemic boils over. This is literally the basis of systemic/institutional racism/inequalities. You can't deny one and not the other.
      - syspec 6y ago
        I never implied there WAS systemic/institutional racism/inequalities. That's your quote not mine. My point is much simpler. Please stop this idea that all hispanic people are poor, or were born poor
        ac29 6y ago
        > Please stop this idea that all hispanic people are poor, or were born poor. That was never said, you're arguing against a straw man. Hispanic people in the US, as a race, have the lowest median and average income of any racial group [0]. That doesn't mean that they are all poor, or that there is something inherently wrong with them, its just a statement of fact. [0] https://dqydj.com/income-by-race/ https://dqydj.com/income-by-race/
        6y ago
valachio 6y ago
I didn't know covid only killed black and latino people
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  San Francisco, Latino's are 30% of the population. 60% of the COVID19 cases.
  - herdodoodo 6y ago
    why is this?
sfj 6y ago
> Why else do you think we've managed to keep it in control despite having some dense city centers? I've got a tiger repelling rock to sell you, only $6 Trillion. Seriously, why does everyone need to stay at home, rather than those that feel vulnerable decide for themselves? We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society. Also, as a bonus, we'd reach herd immunity much faster. > Musk would rather profit and see 10,000 dead black and latino Californians. Good riddance to him. He'd rather save his business. And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California?
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  > tiger repelling rock Mitigation tactics like shelter in place, ppe, and physical distancing are working. Tiger repelling rock would make sense if there was no data supporting this thesis. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-cases-drop-by-up-to-44-due-to-shelter-in-place-orders-study-drawing-on-cdc-data-shows-2020-05-04 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-cases-drop-by-... > decide for themselves They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing. > We could even have free clean food delivered to them, at a fraction of the cost to society. Sounds like an interesting proposal, but that is another topic altogether. > And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California? I don't have any data to tell you who that would be.
  - sfj 6y ago
    > Mitigation tactics like shelter in place, ppe, and physical distancing are working. Tiger repelling rock would make sense if there was no data supporting this thesis. It's the same as "You don't see any tigers around do you?" It's anecdotal. How do you know which of what you said is doing it, Shelter in place, ppe, physical distancing, or something else? You have no idea. >> decide for themselves >They elect officials to represent them. That is what Alameda County is doing. Hey, thanks for snipping out the subject of "those that feel vulnerable" and implying I was talking about the majority of voters. And, you also know the person that ordered the stay at home order was appointed right? >> And who's going to suffer most when he pulls his factory out of California? > I don't have any data to tell you who that would be. A state without private enterprise is not a good one for those "10,000 latinos and blacks" you worry so much about.

iancmceachern 6y ago

Precisely - case numbers are good because of the restrictions.

phasnox 6y ago
This statement sounds like Aristotle spontaneous generation.
9HZZRfNlpR 6y ago
But as I said your state borders are opened, so what's the end game? The whole Europe didn't just stop manufacturing (as a comparison), they just implemented distancing and sanitation rules etc.
tdfx 6y ago
I hear this regurgitated very often but I've never seen any evidence of this. Basic reasoning follows that there would be some drop in cases as a result of the forced closure of all non-essential businesses, but due to the universal nature of the closures I'm not aware of any way to quantify how much it's helping. It could very well be that widespread social distancing and voluntary measures could produce a similar outcome. Is there any study that confirms or debunks this?
- iancmceachern 6y ago
  I'm not familiar with one, and would think it would be very hard to create the controlled circumstances to so so without so many other variables between the study areas confounding the data too much.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  You can generally infer it from restrictions in places that had high case counts and then enforced stay at home measures. Looking at the per-day growth rates in NYC, Italy, LA, etc. before and after the instantiation of stay at home measures is pretty convincing. We'll probably have some more data as places start to reopen.