3 ms·

I expect mostly poor hygiene when it comes to touching contaminated things and faces. I basically can't go out in public without seeing someone with their mask

I expect mostly poor hygiene when it comes to touching contaminated things and faces. I basically can't go out in public without seeing someone with their mask pulled down to talk/eat/smoke. You should be sanitizing your hands every single time you don or doff a mask.

rootusrootus 7y ago
There have been studies of influenza that suggest nearly 100% of all transmission occurs through coughing & sneezing and inhaling the output. To a close approximation, handwashing does exactly zero to stop it from spreading. Scientists seem to think the same is likely true for SC2. Which isn't to say you shouldn't wash your hands, because there are other things you get on your hand which can make you ill. It means keep the damn mask on, and don't take it off until you're well out of range of other people.
- taeric 7y ago
  This has been nagging me. Feels like we are dangerously close to many taking "precautions" as a signaling move more than being cautious. :(
- Johnjonjoan 7y ago
  If you're going to say hand washing doesn't affect transmission rates please at the very least post sources. If that turns out to be misinformation it could be extremely dangerous advice.
Mediterraneo10 7y ago
> I basically can't go out in public without seeing someone with their mask pulled down to talk/eat/smoke. Many countries that have lifted their lockdowns and are now requiring masks in the post-lockdown stage, require those masks to be worn only on public transportation or in shops. Overall, public-health authorities do not believe that people pulling down their mask in the open air to eat or talk on their phone, will significantly change the infection curve for the worst. Let us remember that the public-health goal here is not to prohibit any and all behavior that could potentially, under very ideal circumstances, result in transmission. Rather, the goal is to institute a few general rules that will flatten the curve to the point where contact tracing is effective. People should heed their local authorities on what to do, but I am troubled by the moral panic where posters such the above are insisting on even more stringent behavior than required by the public-health authorities. With regard to hand-washing, touching things is now seen as so relatively unlikely a form of transmission, that some countries which initially required supermarkets to provide gloves and hand sanitizer, have decided to lift that requirement (while keeping the mask requirement). Of course hand washing in general is a good thing, but authorities in many countries do not think that obsessively doing so will make a real impact on COVID-19 transmission rates across society.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > Overall, public-health authorities do not believe that people pulling down their mask in the open air to eat or talk on their phone, will significantly change the infection curve for the worst. No. "Public health authorities" are all really clear: if you're going to wear PPE you need to do it properly. DIY cloth masks are not PPE, they're theatre, so it doesn't really matter whether you wear it or not. > With regard to hand-washing, touching things is now seen as so relatively unlikely a form of transmission This is untrue. Some people on HN are fixated on droplets and aerosols, but we know that fomites are a significant risk. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra032498 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra032498 > The primary mode of transmission appears to be through direct or indirect contact of mucous membrane (eyes, nose, or mouth) with infectious respiratory droplets or fomites.3,26,27 The use of aerosol-generating procedures (such as endotracheal intubation, bronchoscopy, and treatment with aerosolized medication) in hospitals may amplify the transmission of SARS-CoV, and outbreaks have involved more than 100 patients on occasion.3,26-28 SARS-CoV survives for many days when dried on surfaces and in feces at an alkaline pH.33 Although data from direct comparisons are not yet available, a review of previously published data suggests that SARS-CoV may be far more stable than other human respiratory viruses, such as respiratory syncytial virus. The role of fecal–oral transmission is unknown but may be important, given that profuse watery diarrhea is a common feature of the disease and that SARS-CoV is shed in large quantities in stool.
  - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
    > "Public health authorities" are all really clear: if you're going to wear PPE you need to do it properly. You are confusing two things here. For preventing certain people in certain contexts from being infected, PPE is important. For preventing the average person walking around from infecting others to the point of upsetting curve-flattening efforts, any kind of face covering (even if it be a scarf or a Buff) will satisfy the requirement in most countries now. Indeed, the public health authorities – at least in Europe which is presently my main concern – are very clear here: the authorities overall are calling for masks to be required only in shops or on public transportation. Countries like Poland and the Czech Republic which require masks to be worn at all times in public are outliers. (And I expect their rules to soon be harmonized with the less strict countries. De facto in Poland the outdoor requirement is not even being strictly enforced outside the major cities).

rootusrootus 7y ago

There have been studies of influenza that suggest nearly 100% of all transmission occurs through coughing & sneezing and inhaling the output. To a close approximation, handwashing does exactly zero to stop it from spreading. Scientists seem to think the same is likely true for SC2. Which isn't to say you shouldn't wash your hands, because there are other things you get on your hand which can make you ill. It means keep the damn mask on, and don't take it off until you're well out of range of other people.

taeric 7y ago
This has been nagging me. Feels like we are dangerously close to many taking "precautions" as a signaling move more than being cautious. :(
Johnjonjoan 7y ago
If you're going to say hand washing doesn't affect transmission rates please at the very least post sources. If that turns out to be misinformation it could be extremely dangerous advice.

Mediterraneo10 7y ago

> I basically can't go out in public without seeing someone with their mask pulled down to talk/eat/smoke. Many countries that have lifted their lockdowns and are now requiring masks in the post-lockdown stage, require those masks to be worn only on public transportation or in shops. Overall, public-health authorities do not believe that people pulling down their mask in the open air to eat or talk on their phone, will significantly change the infection curve for the worst. Let us remember that the public-health goal here is not to prohibit any and all behavior that could potentially, under very ideal circumstances, result in transmission. Rather, the goal is to institute a few general rules that will flatten the curve to the point where contact tracing is effective. People should heed their local authorities on what to do, but I am troubled by the moral panic where posters such the above are insisting on even more stringent behavior than required by the public-health authorities. With regard to hand-washing, touching things is now seen as so relatively unlikely a form of transmission, that some countries which initially required supermarkets to provide gloves and hand sanitizer, have decided to lift that requirement (while keeping the mask requirement). Of course hand washing in general is a good thing, but authorities in many countries do not think that obsessively doing so will make a real impact on COVID-19 transmission rates across society.

DanBC 7y ago
> Overall, public-health authorities do not believe that people pulling down their mask in the open air to eat or talk on their phone, will significantly change the infection curve for the worst. No. "Public health authorities" are all really clear: if you're going to wear PPE you need to do it properly. DIY cloth masks are not PPE, they're theatre, so it doesn't really matter whether you wear it or not. > With regard to hand-washing, touching things is now seen as so relatively unlikely a form of transmission This is untrue. Some people on HN are fixated on droplets and aerosols, but we know that fomites are a significant risk. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra032498 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra032498 > The primary mode of transmission appears to be through direct or indirect contact of mucous membrane (eyes, nose, or mouth) with infectious respiratory droplets or fomites.3,26,27 The use of aerosol-generating procedures (such as endotracheal intubation, bronchoscopy, and treatment with aerosolized medication) in hospitals may amplify the transmission of SARS-CoV, and outbreaks have involved more than 100 patients on occasion.3,26-28 SARS-CoV survives for many days when dried on surfaces and in feces at an alkaline pH.33 Although data from direct comparisons are not yet available, a review of previously published data suggests that SARS-CoV may be far more stable than other human respiratory viruses, such as respiratory syncytial virus. The role of fecal–oral transmission is unknown but may be important, given that profuse watery diarrhea is a common feature of the disease and that SARS-CoV is shed in large quantities in stool.
- Mediterraneo10 7y ago
  > "Public health authorities" are all really clear: if you're going to wear PPE you need to do it properly. You are confusing two things here. For preventing certain people in certain contexts from being infected, PPE is important. For preventing the average person walking around from infecting others to the point of upsetting curve-flattening efforts, any kind of face covering (even if it be a scarf or a Buff) will satisfy the requirement in most countries now. Indeed, the public health authorities – at least in Europe which is presently my main concern – are very clear here: the authorities overall are calling for masks to be required only in shops or on public transportation. Countries like Poland and the Czech Republic which require masks to be worn at all times in public are outliers. (And I expect their rules to soon be harmonized with the less strict countries. De facto in Poland the outdoor requirement is not even being strictly enforced outside the major cities).