4 ms·

> I'm genuinely confused by the animosity To me, it's because this stinks in the same way as Bezos playing cities off each other to extract concessions. He's e

by paulgb 7y ago

> I'm genuinely confused by the animosity To me, it's because this stinks in the same way as Bezos playing cities off each other to extract concessions. He's even asking fans and shareholders to sue the county[1] and reach out to politicians[2]. A county has made a decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of public health. You don't have to agree with their decision, but throwing your weight around as a billionaire to spite them for it is a bad look. 1: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832 2: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259174414865719296 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259174414865719296 Edit: fixed reference link (thanks mft_).

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago
>A county has made a decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of public health. This can be debated, right? I'm not sure what's the problem with the management of a company saying they're moving a headquarter because they believe they can better operate elsewhere, or asking other people who feel negatively impacted to consider a legal actions (unless you don't trust the legal system, but that's another matter I guess).
- paulgb 7y ago
  Of course it can. Is there evidence of bad faith on the county's part? I'm open to updating my beliefs.
  - jdross 7y ago
    It's not required. He's making a decision that business is best conducted elsewhere, as is his right. Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business and life's work. I'd certainly have a lot to say about it
    - paulgb 7y ago
      > Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business and life's work. Same, but I also wouldn't want to live in a county whose officials are afraid to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people's health out of fear of the wrath of a billionaire and his followers. If he wants to move the plant I have no problem with that, it's the way he's trying to use his position for outsized political pressure that I dislike.
- ianai 7y ago
  When your company’s centered around moving faster and faster then you have to stop it can create all sorts of issues. He may see greater financial upside or even the only way to continue to be solvent to pivot to other manufacturing projects. Ie it’s easier to say you need funding for a new “Terrafactory” (or GF) than to say you need funding to keep the books out of the red for this month/quarter/etc. As someone who genuinely appreciates what Elon is striving for and wants all of his projects to succeed, I hope he’ll succeed in building a new project soon in addition to keeping the California factory for reopening later on.
ianai 7y ago
On the one hand, I’m grateful as Nevada sorely needs new industry outside of hospitality. Probably some benefit similar holds for Texas. Meanwhile LA and Cali have plenty of industry and corporations local to hardly notice Tesla leaving. On the other hand I think society should have some safeguards and safety nets in place for once per century events such as a pandemic that shutters the economy. Surely if we had kept a preparation in place since 1918 we would have a much easier time weathering this storm. But instead society forgot all about these things. It wouldn’t have been easy of course given the shortsighted nature of politics.
mft_ 7y ago
> He's even asking fans and shareholders to sue the county[1] Um, the tweet you referenced reads "Please voice your disagreement as strongly as possible with @AlamedaCounty". Isn't this just asking people to, you know, contact their local politicians and voice their opinion? Like, how individual citizens with an opinion can do? There's nothing about suing anyone?
- paulgb 7y ago
  Sorry, I pasted the wrong link. This is the one I meant to link to: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832 Shareholder: [...] can shareholders file a class action lawsuit? [...] Elon: Absolutely, please do! You should be allowed to recoup damages from the county.
  - mft_ 7y ago
    Then let's be clear here too. He's not asking anyone to do anything, and he's not asking fans to sue anyone. He's agreeing with a shareholder's suggestion about a class action suit.
    - paulgb 7y ago
      Not just agreeing, emphatically encouraging. I guess it's a matter of semantics. If you ask if I want a coffee and I say "yes please", did I ask for coffee? I would say the answer is "yes", but I could understand a hyperliteral argument for "no".

by paulgb 7y ago

rcMgD2BwE72F 7y ago

>A county has made a decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of public health. This can be debated, right? I'm not sure what's the problem with the management of a company saying they're moving a headquarter because they believe they can better operate elsewhere, or asking other people who feel negatively impacted to consider a legal actions (unless you don't trust the legal system, but that's another matter I guess).

paulgb 7y ago
Of course it can. Is there evidence of bad faith on the county's part? I'm open to updating my beliefs.
- jdross 7y ago
  It's not required. He's making a decision that business is best conducted elsewhere, as is his right. Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business and life's work. I'd certainly have a lot to say about it
  - paulgb 7y ago
    > Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business and life's work. Same, but I also wouldn't want to live in a county whose officials are afraid to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people's health out of fear of the wrath of a billionaire and his followers. If he wants to move the plant I have no problem with that, it's the way he's trying to use his position for outsized political pressure that I dislike.
ianai 7y ago
When your company’s centered around moving faster and faster then you have to stop it can create all sorts of issues. He may see greater financial upside or even the only way to continue to be solvent to pivot to other manufacturing projects. Ie it’s easier to say you need funding for a new “Terrafactory” (or GF) than to say you need funding to keep the books out of the red for this month/quarter/etc. As someone who genuinely appreciates what Elon is striving for and wants all of his projects to succeed, I hope he’ll succeed in building a new project soon in addition to keeping the California factory for reopening later on.

ianai 7y ago

On the one hand, I’m grateful as Nevada sorely needs new industry outside of hospitality. Probably some benefit similar holds for Texas. Meanwhile LA and Cali have plenty of industry and corporations local to hardly notice Tesla leaving. On the other hand I think society should have some safeguards and safety nets in place for once per century events such as a pandemic that shutters the economy. Surely if we had kept a preparation in place since 1918 we would have a much easier time weathering this storm. But instead society forgot all about these things. It wouldn’t have been easy of course given the shortsighted nature of politics.

mft_ 7y ago

> He's even asking fans and shareholders to sue the county[1] Um, the tweet you referenced reads "Please voice your disagreement as strongly as possible with @AlamedaCounty". Isn't this just asking people to, you know, contact their local politicians and voice their opinion? Like, how individual citizens with an opinion can do? There's nothing about suing anyone?

paulgb 7y ago
Sorry, I pasted the wrong link. This is the one I meant to link to: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832 Shareholder: [...] can shareholders file a class action lawsuit? [...] Elon: Absolutely, please do! You should be allowed to recoup damages from the county.
- mft_ 7y ago
  Then let's be clear here too. He's not asking anyone to do anything, and he's not asking fans to sue anyone. He's agreeing with a shareholder's suggestion about a class action suit.
  - paulgb 7y ago
    Not just agreeing, emphatically encouraging. I guess it's a matter of semantics. If you ask if I want a coffee and I say "yes please", did I ask for coffee? I would say the answer is "yes", but I could understand a hyperliteral argument for "no".