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It seems like you're judging Damore for being willing to share his considered and evidenced based beliefs with other people, because you don't like the ideology

It seems like you're judging Damore for being willing to share his considered and evidenced based beliefs with other people, because you don't like the ideology of those other people. That strikes me as a very anti-intellectual and anti-philosophical position.

ashtonkem 7y ago
I don’t really care about Damore or what he thinks. I’m just saying that if Damore continues to associate with alt-right figures, he shouldn’t be surprised when people start assuming that he’s an alt-right crank, because that’s how people work.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  I wouldn't generalize your own flaws to "people". I suspect many people understand you can talk to people without agreeing with them on everything.
  - ashtonkem 7y ago
    Combining a bad faith reading with a personal insult is quite the combination. Maybe don’t do that?
    - ALittleLight 7y ago
      It is not a personal insult to point out a flaw. It is a flaw to assume that talking to people means you are ideologically aligned with them. You claimed this is how "people" work. To the extent that I can assume you consider yourself a member of the group "people" I can logically conclude you are saying that this is how you work too. I don't think you are qualified to speak for all people, but you are certainly qualified to speak for yourself. Thus, you admitted a flaw in yourself and I responded to it.
      - ashtonkem 7y ago
        Fine, since you’re going to be persistent about insulting me, I’ll take the bait and explain this carefully. Humans don’t have the time, energy, or interest to evaluate every scrap of information about other people. Instead humans regularly use heuristics when meeting people for the first time, to save time and mental energy. One of these heuristics involves making assumptions about people based on the company they keep. If someone is a friend of a friend, you probably make positive assumptions about them based on your shared friendship and a belief in your friends good judgement (I hope). Similarly you’re likely to initially dislike someone who is close friends with someone you dislike, for very similar reasons. Another heuristic is group membership. We regularly assume that people hired at prestigious companies or enrolled at elite universities are more intelligent or hard working than the average person, and we make similar negative associations about someone who has been to prison. It might not be true every time, but it’s a decent heuristic to evaluate people quickly. You may or may not like these heuristics, they can occasionally have some extremely negative consequences, but this is a pretty well studied area of human psychology. We all do it. Now, back to the subject at hand. Obviously if you know Damore or a lot about his essay, you should judge him based on that. But if the first exposure you have to him is that he’s constantly going onto right or alt-right shows, it’s a reasonable assumption that he’s an alt-right figure. You might not agree that Damore is alt right, and you might have extremely good evidence for that, but to the casual observer that doesn’t matter. Assuming that he’s alt-right based on the company he visibly keeps is a pretty reasonable assumption given the shows that he goes on. Hence, my original point.
        ALittleLight 7y ago
        You're conflating going on a talk show to share your story and being friends with people. I also don't really get your point. It seems like you're saying some people will incorrectly judge him because of the talk shows he went on. Okay, so?
        ashtonkem 7y ago
        You didn’t read fully. I made it clear that group membership is one thing that people will judge on. Group membership would plausibly include those who go onto specific TV shows. And yes, literally my entire point was that people will judge him for going on talk shows.

ashtonkem 7y ago

I don’t really care about Damore or what he thinks. I’m just saying that if Damore continues to associate with alt-right figures, he shouldn’t be surprised when people start assuming that he’s an alt-right crank, because that’s how people work.

ALittleLight 7y ago
I wouldn't generalize your own flaws to "people". I suspect many people understand you can talk to people without agreeing with them on everything.
- ashtonkem 7y ago
  Combining a bad faith reading with a personal insult is quite the combination. Maybe don’t do that?
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    It is not a personal insult to point out a flaw. It is a flaw to assume that talking to people means you are ideologically aligned with them. You claimed this is how "people" work. To the extent that I can assume you consider yourself a member of the group "people" I can logically conclude you are saying that this is how you work too. I don't think you are qualified to speak for all people, but you are certainly qualified to speak for yourself. Thus, you admitted a flaw in yourself and I responded to it.
    - ashtonkem 7y ago
      Fine, since you’re going to be persistent about insulting me, I’ll take the bait and explain this carefully. Humans don’t have the time, energy, or interest to evaluate every scrap of information about other people. Instead humans regularly use heuristics when meeting people for the first time, to save time and mental energy. One of these heuristics involves making assumptions about people based on the company they keep. If someone is a friend of a friend, you probably make positive assumptions about them based on your shared friendship and a belief in your friends good judgement (I hope). Similarly you’re likely to initially dislike someone who is close friends with someone you dislike, for very similar reasons. Another heuristic is group membership. We regularly assume that people hired at prestigious companies or enrolled at elite universities are more intelligent or hard working than the average person, and we make similar negative associations about someone who has been to prison. It might not be true every time, but it’s a decent heuristic to evaluate people quickly. You may or may not like these heuristics, they can occasionally have some extremely negative consequences, but this is a pretty well studied area of human psychology. We all do it. Now, back to the subject at hand. Obviously if you know Damore or a lot about his essay, you should judge him based on that. But if the first exposure you have to him is that he’s constantly going onto right or alt-right shows, it’s a reasonable assumption that he’s an alt-right figure. You might not agree that Damore is alt right, and you might have extremely good evidence for that, but to the casual observer that doesn’t matter. Assuming that he’s alt-right based on the company he visibly keeps is a pretty reasonable assumption given the shows that he goes on. Hence, my original point.
      - ALittleLight 7y ago
        You're conflating going on a talk show to share your story and being friends with people. I also don't really get your point. It seems like you're saying some people will incorrectly judge him because of the talk shows he went on. Okay, so?
        ashtonkem 7y ago
        You didn’t read fully. I made it clear that group membership is one thing that people will judge on. Group membership would plausibly include those who go onto specific TV shows. And yes, literally my entire point was that people will judge him for going on talk shows.