4 ms·

I honestly want to meet techbros. I live in some sort of echo chamber where gender is so irrelevant to most participants. I have never seen anyone ask someone's

I honestly want to meet techbros. I live in some sort of echo chamber where gender is so irrelevant to most participants. I have never seen anyone ask someone's gender on a github issue, I may have missed it but I have seen few issues opened because no inclusivity. No one in any of the programming communities I am in gives two shit about the gender of the participants. Most people have pseudonyms with anime avatars anyway. Incidentally the techbros you describe are majorly young cs graduates from my observation. Why are unis teaching them to be tech bros? Are unis at fault for making tech non inclusive and toxic?

DonHopkins 6y ago
Count your blessings, and read the articles I posted about Evan Spiegel, then you'll feel like you met one of them, then you'll want to take a shower, and then you'll appreciate all your decent open minded friends you're lucky to have. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124729 And it's not just Tech Bros, it's Frat Bros in general. See: Jared Kushner. https://www.businessinsider.nl/coronavirus-kushner-impact-team-mocked-slim-suit-crowd-frat-party-2020-4/ https://www.businessinsider.nl/coronavirus-kushner-impact-te... >Jared Kushner’s coronavirus ‘impact team’ mocked as the ‘Slim Suit Crowd’ and a ‘frat party’ descended from a UFO
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  Journalist using the words "frat" in an article doesn't make something true. The only place I see this term slung is in the media and HN, or people making up abstract bad guys to vent their anger on.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Fraternities exist, and they have a culture associated with them. Visit any college campus (well, not right now) and you’ll find out exactly what it is.
    - googlryas 6y ago
      By "culture associated with them" you mean you have a stereotype of their culture you associate with them.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        No, I was recently a college student who lived near frat houses. (Yes, I know there are academic fraternities: that’s not what this discussion was about.)
        googlryas 6y ago
        I was recently living next to black people, so let me tell you about how black people really are.
        tomnipotent 6y ago
        Exactly. Most people use silly stereotypes from TV to paint "frat bois" in some biased lighting, never ceases to amuse me.
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    >Journalist using the words "frat" [...] No actually: widely respected Pulitzer Prize and other award winning New York Times journalists quoting senior government official using the word "frat": “The culture clash between public and private sectors has been jarring,” The Times reports. “The senior official described the Kushner team as a ‘frat party’ that descended from a U.F.O. and invaded the federal government.” >The only place I see this term slung is in the media [...] So basically, EVERYWHERE. >[...] and HN A subset of everywhere. >[...] or people making up abstract bad guys [...] I SPECIFICALLY cited Evan Spiegel by name as a bad guy, a Frat Bro, and a Tech Bro: what's so abstract about that? The leading literary magazine The Atlantic, a highly respected 150-year-old publication, specifically described Evan Spiegel by name as "the Frattiest Bro of Them All" and "the ultimate frat guy". And as you should well know, Travis Kalanick is the SPECIFIC bad guy at Uber responsible for its infamously toxic Tech Bro culture. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/snapchat-the-app-frat-bros-love-was-started-by-the-frattiest-bro-of-them-all/371749/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/snapc... >Snapchat, the App Frat Bros Love, Was Started By the Frattiest Bro of Them All >Evan Spiegel, the CEO and cofounder of Snapchat, has created a massive, popular application. It's basically a frat boys dream, and as it turns out, Spiegel was the ultimate frat guy during his time at Standford. There are certainly many other names I could name and specific examples of toxic Tech Bro culture in the tech industry I could cite, but you're absolutely incorrect to say that I'm just "making up abstract bad guys". Do you really believe the problem is that the bad guys are too abstract? The media and lawsuits have certainly named other specific bad guys at other specific toxic nepotistic sexist companies before, like Eric Akerman and Scott Henry and Euen Thompson at Magic Leap, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725347 https://www.vrandfun.com/magic-leap-settling-sex-discrimination-lawsuit-with-former-employee/ https://www.vrandfun.com/magic-leap-settling-sex-discriminat... >Magic Leap Settling Sex Discrimination Lawsuit with Former Employee (vrandfun.com) >"Eric Akerman, vice president of IT, is a high school buddy of Abovitz. He is a loud and outspoken and several misogynistic comments have emanated from his department and from him." >"Vice president of IT Akerman, on Nov. 8, 2016, told a large group of people who asked why he voted for Trump that it was 'because Melania is hot.'" >Campbell met September 28, 2016 with Magic Leap CFO Henry and Head of Operations Tina Tuli for a conference call with the CFO and leadership team at R/GA, an award-winning international advertising agency that was Magic Leap’s advertising agency of record. During the call, Henry said of the product under development, “I’m sitting here between two beautiful ladies. They’re not going to want to put a big ugly device over their pretty faces. And I have an office with glass doors, I don’t want people to see me with these beautiful girls with ugly things on their faces.” Later, one of the male R/GA executives on the call asked Campbell if Henry frequently made sexist comments like he had made. A female executive at R/GA also was offended by Henry’s remarks. >Euen Thompson, an IT Support Lead, on November 16, 2016, gave a tutorial to a group of seven new hires, including two women, how to use Magic Leap’s IT equipment and resources. One woman asked Thompson a question in front of the group and Thompson responded, “Yeah, women always have trouble with computers.” The women in the group, in apparent disbelief, asked Thompson to repeat what he said and Thompson replied, “In IT we have a saying; stay away from the Three Os: Orientals, Old People and Ovaries.”
CJefferson 6y ago
Honestly, they aren't in github issues. They are on Twitter, they are sending people DMs, they are at physical meetups. Me and my wife are both AI academics in the UK who do a bunch of programming. I have no "interesring stories" to tell, my wife has a dozen including men punching walls because they were beaten by a woman in a board game, being sent death threats and dick pics (not from the same person), and being assumed to be my non-tech wife when we go to events where she was invited and I was going as her partner. Now, these events aren't daily, or even weekly, but they stick with people and make then feel unwelcome and unsafe.
- fastball 6y ago
  > Twitter > Toxicity Probably you don't need to go further than that.
- DreamScatter 6y ago
  Sounds like those issues she is having is not due to her industry, but just due to some sort of other dynamics not necessarily related to the industry itself.

DonHopkins 6y ago

Count your blessings, and read the articles I posted about Evan Spiegel, then you'll feel like you met one of them, then you'll want to take a shower, and then you'll appreciate all your decent open minded friends you're lucky to have. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124729 And it's not just Tech Bros, it's Frat Bros in general. See: Jared Kushner. https://www.businessinsider.nl/coronavirus-kushner-impact-team-mocked-slim-suit-crowd-frat-party-2020-4/ https://www.businessinsider.nl/coronavirus-kushner-impact-te... >Jared Kushner’s coronavirus ‘impact team’ mocked as the ‘Slim Suit Crowd’ and a ‘frat party’ descended from a UFO

tomnipotent 6y ago
Journalist using the words "frat" in an article doesn't make something true. The only place I see this term slung is in the media and HN, or people making up abstract bad guys to vent their anger on.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Fraternities exist, and they have a culture associated with them. Visit any college campus (well, not right now) and you’ll find out exactly what it is.
  - googlryas 6y ago
    By "culture associated with them" you mean you have a stereotype of their culture you associate with them.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      No, I was recently a college student who lived near frat houses. (Yes, I know there are academic fraternities: that’s not what this discussion was about.)
      - googlryas 6y ago
        I was recently living next to black people, so let me tell you about how black people really are.
        tomnipotent 6y ago
        Exactly. Most people use silly stereotypes from TV to paint "frat bois" in some biased lighting, never ceases to amuse me.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  >Journalist using the words "frat" [...] No actually: widely respected Pulitzer Prize and other award winning New York Times journalists quoting senior government official using the word "frat": “The culture clash between public and private sectors has been jarring,” The Times reports. “The senior official described the Kushner team as a ‘frat party’ that descended from a U.F.O. and invaded the federal government.” >The only place I see this term slung is in the media [...] So basically, EVERYWHERE. >[...] and HN A subset of everywhere. >[...] or people making up abstract bad guys [...] I SPECIFICALLY cited Evan Spiegel by name as a bad guy, a Frat Bro, and a Tech Bro: what's so abstract about that? The leading literary magazine The Atlantic, a highly respected 150-year-old publication, specifically described Evan Spiegel by name as "the Frattiest Bro of Them All" and "the ultimate frat guy". And as you should well know, Travis Kalanick is the SPECIFIC bad guy at Uber responsible for its infamously toxic Tech Bro culture. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/snapchat-the-app-frat-bros-love-was-started-by-the-frattiest-bro-of-them-all/371749/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/snapc... >Snapchat, the App Frat Bros Love, Was Started By the Frattiest Bro of Them All >Evan Spiegel, the CEO and cofounder of Snapchat, has created a massive, popular application. It's basically a frat boys dream, and as it turns out, Spiegel was the ultimate frat guy during his time at Standford. There are certainly many other names I could name and specific examples of toxic Tech Bro culture in the tech industry I could cite, but you're absolutely incorrect to say that I'm just "making up abstract bad guys". Do you really believe the problem is that the bad guys are too abstract? The media and lawsuits have certainly named other specific bad guys at other specific toxic nepotistic sexist companies before, like Eric Akerman and Scott Henry and Euen Thompson at Magic Leap, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725347 https://www.vrandfun.com/magic-leap-settling-sex-discrimination-lawsuit-with-former-employee/ https://www.vrandfun.com/magic-leap-settling-sex-discriminat... >Magic Leap Settling Sex Discrimination Lawsuit with Former Employee (vrandfun.com) >"Eric Akerman, vice president of IT, is a high school buddy of Abovitz. He is a loud and outspoken and several misogynistic comments have emanated from his department and from him." >"Vice president of IT Akerman, on Nov. 8, 2016, told a large group of people who asked why he voted for Trump that it was 'because Melania is hot.'" >Campbell met September 28, 2016 with Magic Leap CFO Henry and Head of Operations Tina Tuli for a conference call with the CFO and leadership team at R/GA, an award-winning international advertising agency that was Magic Leap’s advertising agency of record. During the call, Henry said of the product under development, “I’m sitting here between two beautiful ladies. They’re not going to want to put a big ugly device over their pretty faces. And I have an office with glass doors, I don’t want people to see me with these beautiful girls with ugly things on their faces.” Later, one of the male R/GA executives on the call asked Campbell if Henry frequently made sexist comments like he had made. A female executive at R/GA also was offended by Henry’s remarks. >Euen Thompson, an IT Support Lead, on November 16, 2016, gave a tutorial to a group of seven new hires, including two women, how to use Magic Leap’s IT equipment and resources. One woman asked Thompson a question in front of the group and Thompson responded, “Yeah, women always have trouble with computers.” The women in the group, in apparent disbelief, asked Thompson to repeat what he said and Thompson replied, “In IT we have a saying; stay away from the Three Os: Orientals, Old People and Ovaries.”

CJefferson 6y ago

Honestly, they aren't in github issues. They are on Twitter, they are sending people DMs, they are at physical meetups. Me and my wife are both AI academics in the UK who do a bunch of programming. I have no "interesring stories" to tell, my wife has a dozen including men punching walls because they were beaten by a woman in a board game, being sent death threats and dick pics (not from the same person), and being assumed to be my non-tech wife when we go to events where she was invited and I was going as her partner. Now, these events aren't daily, or even weekly, but they stick with people and make then feel unwelcome and unsafe.

fastball 6y ago
> Twitter > Toxicity Probably you don't need to go further than that.
DreamScatter 6y ago
Sounds like those issues she is having is not due to her industry, but just due to some sort of other dynamics not necessarily related to the industry itself.