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There are already safeguards that make it difficult to cheat undetectably in vote by mail. Perhaps you can fill us in with your tips for avoiding them? The guy

There are already safeguards that make it difficult to cheat undetectably in vote by mail. Perhaps you can fill us in with your tips for avoiding them? The guy in NC sure flunked that test.

daenz 6y ago
>There are already safeguards that make it difficult to cheat undetectably in vote by mail. The majority of Americans still trust in-person voting over vote-by-mail. Perhaps you can share the safeguards that will assuage their concerns. >Within the coronavirus context and questions of safety with in-person voting in November, voters are not very comfortable changing their method of voting. Voters across the country generally trust their current voting process, with 55% trusting primarily in-person voting, compared with 20% who do not trust the current process. When asked about mail balloting, 47% said they would trust a national vote-by-mail process in November, while 31% lack trust in this system. When voters were asked about online balloting, only 33% said they would trust an online system, with 45% not trusting online voting in November’s election. http://emersonpolling.com/2020/04/28/april-national-poll-trump-down-but-not-out-as-enthusiasm-and-expectation-favor-the-president/ http://emersonpolling.com/2020/04/28/april-national-poll-tru...
- greglindahl 6y ago
  Sorry, my mistake. I thought you wanted to have a discussion in good faith about the details you were unaware of. In hindsight, I was foolish.
  - daenz 6y ago
    I think you indicated that you were already not speaking in good faith with the condescending "perhaps you can fill us in on your tips" and pretending that nobody would notice.
    - greglindahl 6y ago
      Ah. No wonder your followup was so pointless. If you ever do want to know about the numerous existing safeguards that are built into our bi-partisan-designed election system, you can probably educate yourself online.
      - daenz 6y ago
        The existence of any safeguards was never in question, but thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Have a blessed day.
        greglindahl 6y ago
        You said: > My point is that it is easier to cheat undetectably the more indirection you introduce into the process. It's not just "any" safeguards. It's existing safeguards that work well at the level of indirection that "vote by mail" represents. Even with ballot pickup.
        daenz 6y ago
        And I'll go back to my other point, which you again condescendingly dismissed (see a theme here?) as "pointless": the general public needs to be convinced of the safeguards--safeguards which you are suggesting thwart any attempts at indirection-based potential fraud-- in order for them to be effective. Voting isn't about simply voting, it's about faith in the system itself. You could have a perfect voting system, but if nobody trusts it, it is as bad as a corrupted system because nobody will agree on the outcome. And currently, whatever safeguards you claim are "good enough" clearly are not good enough to convince the general public to trust them, so they aren't good enough.
        wpietri 6y ago
        You really don't come across as somebody interested in convincing the general public here. Or particularly aware of what the general public actually trusts. 71% of Americans say that “any voter should have the option to vote early or absentee without having to document a reason." And the areas with the most experience with more relaxed approaches to voting are the ones most likely to agree with that. It is true that pure vote-by-mail is the thing that that people are most skeptical of. But almost nobody is 100% opposed to mailed votes; people are fine with absentee voters, military voters, etc. And California's experience shows that people get more comfortable with mail voting as they have more experience with it. Since 2012, the majority of votes have been cast absentee (which is a mix of mail and drop-off): https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/historical-absentee/ https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/historical-absentee/ So if you'd like to convince the general public, the thing to do is to allow both approaches and let people pick. Especially during a global pandemic, I think we'll see a lot more people liking the idea of mail-in voting than they did in past surveys.

There are already safeguards that make it difficult to cheat undetectably in vote by mail. Perhaps you can fill us in with your tips for avoiding them? The guy in NC sure flunked that test.

daenz 6y ago

>There are already safeguards that make it difficult to cheat undetectably in vote by mail. The majority of Americans still trust in-person voting over vote-by-mail. Perhaps you can share the safeguards that will assuage their concerns. >Within the coronavirus context and questions of safety with in-person voting in November, voters are not very comfortable changing their method of voting. Voters across the country generally trust their current voting process, with 55% trusting primarily in-person voting, compared with 20% who do not trust the current process. When asked about mail balloting, 47% said they would trust a national vote-by-mail process in November, while 31% lack trust in this system. When voters were asked about online balloting, only 33% said they would trust an online system, with 45% not trusting online voting in November’s election. http://emersonpolling.com/2020/04/28/april-national-poll-trump-down-but-not-out-as-enthusiasm-and-expectation-favor-the-president/ http://emersonpolling.com/2020/04/28/april-national-poll-tru...

greglindahl 6y ago
Sorry, my mistake. I thought you wanted to have a discussion in good faith about the details you were unaware of. In hindsight, I was foolish.
- daenz 6y ago
  I think you indicated that you were already not speaking in good faith with the condescending "perhaps you can fill us in on your tips" and pretending that nobody would notice.
  - greglindahl 6y ago
    Ah. No wonder your followup was so pointless. If you ever do want to know about the numerous existing safeguards that are built into our bi-partisan-designed election system, you can probably educate yourself online.
    - daenz 6y ago
      The existence of any safeguards was never in question, but thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Have a blessed day.
      - greglindahl 6y ago
        You said: > My point is that it is easier to cheat undetectably the more indirection you introduce into the process. It's not just "any" safeguards. It's existing safeguards that work well at the level of indirection that "vote by mail" represents. Even with ballot pickup.
        daenz 6y ago
        And I'll go back to my other point, which you again condescendingly dismissed (see a theme here?) as "pointless": the general public needs to be convinced of the safeguards--safeguards which you are suggesting thwart any attempts at indirection-based potential fraud-- in order for them to be effective. Voting isn't about simply voting, it's about faith in the system itself. You could have a perfect voting system, but if nobody trusts it, it is as bad as a corrupted system because nobody will agree on the outcome. And currently, whatever safeguards you claim are "good enough" clearly are not good enough to convince the general public to trust them, so they aren't good enough.
        wpietri 6y ago
        You really don't come across as somebody interested in convincing the general public here. Or particularly aware of what the general public actually trusts. 71% of Americans say that “any voter should have the option to vote early or absentee without having to document a reason." And the areas with the most experience with more relaxed approaches to voting are the ones most likely to agree with that. It is true that pure vote-by-mail is the thing that that people are most skeptical of. But almost nobody is 100% opposed to mailed votes; people are fine with absentee voters, military voters, etc. And California's experience shows that people get more comfortable with mail voting as they have more experience with it. Since 2012, the majority of votes have been cast absentee (which is a mix of mail and drop-off): https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/historical-absentee/ https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/historical-absentee/ So if you'd like to convince the general public, the thing to do is to allow both approaches and let people pick. Especially during a global pandemic, I think we'll see a lot more people liking the idea of mail-in voting than they did in past surveys.