5 ms·

Actually Roombas for a while already have vision and model/map their environment.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Ok. But they have tiny little processors (5?) that each do a tiny little task with a smidgen of RAM. Is the 'vision' feature real, or just a light intensity detector? Can you get a picture out of it? I'm dubious. As for the model/map, how does it sense location? Dead reckoning? Not a very significant feature if it can't find itself on the map, nor use the map to choose a route. Which I doubt (from videos of the Roomba in action)
- qchris 6y ago
  It depends on the model, but I think that your impression of Roomba, either through experience or the technology that the author of this article presented is really out-of-date. Even on past models, they have Visual Simultaneous Location and Mapping (VSLAM) tech that is far, far beyond dead reckoning. The even more recent version (not sure if there's been a release since) also has persistent maps, so it actually can find itself on the map and choose routes[2]. I'm not sure what exactly the processors are, but considering the supply-chain investments that've gone into mobile processor development for smartphones, I think it's likely unfair to characterize them as "tiny little processors". Disclosure: I did an internship at iRobot a few years ago, although the overwhelming majority of my work wasn't related to Roomba products. [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/irobot-brings-visual-mapping-and-navigation-to-the-roomba-980 https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/iro... [2] https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/new-roomba-i7-features-persistent-maps-room-cleaning https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/new...
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    That's a big name. I'm suspicious it means "light intensity map" or something far less interesting than it sounds. Turn a light on or off, and then what? My Shark (ok Not a Roomba) manual says to leave the lights on. I suspect that's because its navigating by light intensity (light fixture bright spots).
    - simplyaccont 6y ago
      Roomba usually runs during the day when lights are off and all windows are darkened. If I open windows/turn on lights - there is no difference. Also you can draw on the map (that roomba makes) "no-go" area, and it will obey it.
    - qchris 6y ago
      I don't like to be dismissive, but your suspicion isn't well-founded and is very likely based on little or no background research on the topic. If you had, you'd have found that SLAM and VSLAM as a subset is a well-defined category of computer with a strong mathematical background in optical flow and pattern matching on images[0]. You'd have found a number of iRobot patents still in their enforceable time period directly referencing the use of cameras in those algorithms[1][2]. You'd have found marketing materials describing how those systems work that directly correlates with the technology described in those patents[3]. That's based on no special previous knowledge of those materials on my part, just the top few results from a couple minutes of DDG and Google Scholar searches. Implying that is just "a big name" that means "something far less interesting than it sounds" is an uninformed opinion. Plus, even [0], which is 15 years old directly refutes your comments about the effect of lighting. Lighting is helpful because it illuminates the scene that a camera is seeing, in the same way that it's easier to go on a night hike on during a full moon. We don't reference our position off the moon, it just makes it easier to see where we're walking. [0] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1570091 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1570091 [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US9286810B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9286810B2/en [2] https://patents.google.com/patent/US9910444B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9910444B2/en [3] https://www.irobot.com/roomba/s-series https://www.irobot.com/roomba/s-series
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        The processors in a Roomba (when I went to the plant a couple years ago) were all around $1. No room in a buck chip for that. Ok I see it uses DSPs which is a budget version of image processing. Looks for moving marks on the walls to gauge distance. Kind of a cut-rate lidar. About what I figured.

Ok. But they have tiny little processors (5?) that each do a tiny little task with a smidgen of RAM. Is the 'vision' feature real, or just a light intensity detector? Can you get a picture out of it? I'm dubious. As for the model/map, how does it sense location? Dead reckoning? Not a very significant feature if it can't find itself on the map, nor use the map to choose a route. Which I doubt (from videos of the Roomba in action)

qchris 6y ago
It depends on the model, but I think that your impression of Roomba, either through experience or the technology that the author of this article presented is really out-of-date. Even on past models, they have Visual Simultaneous Location and Mapping (VSLAM) tech that is far, far beyond dead reckoning. The even more recent version (not sure if there's been a release since) also has persistent maps, so it actually can find itself on the map and choose routes[2]. I'm not sure what exactly the processors are, but considering the supply-chain investments that've gone into mobile processor development for smartphones, I think it's likely unfair to characterize them as "tiny little processors". Disclosure: I did an internship at iRobot a few years ago, although the overwhelming majority of my work wasn't related to Roomba products. [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/irobot-brings-visual-mapping-and-navigation-to-the-roomba-980 https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/iro... [2] https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/new-roomba-i7-features-persistent-maps-room-cleaning https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/home-robots/new...
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  That's a big name. I'm suspicious it means "light intensity map" or something far less interesting than it sounds. Turn a light on or off, and then what? My Shark (ok Not a Roomba) manual says to leave the lights on. I suspect that's because its navigating by light intensity (light fixture bright spots).
  - simplyaccont 6y ago
    Roomba usually runs during the day when lights are off and all windows are darkened. If I open windows/turn on lights - there is no difference. Also you can draw on the map (that roomba makes) "no-go" area, and it will obey it.
  - qchris 6y ago
    I don't like to be dismissive, but your suspicion isn't well-founded and is very likely based on little or no background research on the topic. If you had, you'd have found that SLAM and VSLAM as a subset is a well-defined category of computer with a strong mathematical background in optical flow and pattern matching on images[0]. You'd have found a number of iRobot patents still in their enforceable time period directly referencing the use of cameras in those algorithms[1][2]. You'd have found marketing materials describing how those systems work that directly correlates with the technology described in those patents[3]. That's based on no special previous knowledge of those materials on my part, just the top few results from a couple minutes of DDG and Google Scholar searches. Implying that is just "a big name" that means "something far less interesting than it sounds" is an uninformed opinion. Plus, even [0], which is 15 years old directly refutes your comments about the effect of lighting. Lighting is helpful because it illuminates the scene that a camera is seeing, in the same way that it's easier to go on a night hike on during a full moon. We don't reference our position off the moon, it just makes it easier to see where we're walking. [0] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1570091 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1570091 [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US9286810B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9286810B2/en [2] https://patents.google.com/patent/US9910444B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9910444B2/en [3] https://www.irobot.com/roomba/s-series https://www.irobot.com/roomba/s-series
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      The processors in a Roomba (when I went to the plant a couple years ago) were all around $1. No room in a buck chip for that. Ok I see it uses DSPs which is a budget version of image processing. Looks for moving marks on the walls to gauge distance. Kind of a cut-rate lidar. About what I figured.