6 ms·

This article really misses the point. Sure, there may be times in the long past where there was a lot of divide. America once had legal slavery too. But it woul

by tensor 6y ago

This article really misses the point. Sure, there may be times in the long past where there was a lot of divide. America once had legal slavery too. But it would still be absolutely appalling if slavery were to come back today. The article almost gives off the impression that "oh it happened before so it's ok and normal". No, it's not ok and normal. It wasn't ok back then and it's not ok now.

zepto 6y ago
It seems like it isn’t abnormal - what exactly is normal? Neither seem ‘ok’ for what that is worth.
daenz 6y ago
>But it would still be absolutely appalling if slavery were to come back today. I've got news for you: undocumented labor makes up 9% of California's labor force [0]. Undocumented workers don't have the same exact conditions as slaves, but I'll leave the research to you as to why their position is one of extraordinary vulnerability and abuse at the hands of employers. People proudly tout California as the USA's largest agricultural exporter, but they don't acknowledge why it's possible. 0. https://www.epi.org/publication/california-immigrant-labor-laws/ https://www.epi.org/publication/california-immigrant-labor-l...
- neonate 6y ago
  Vulnerable to abuse as those workers are, that situation is not close to what was done to the slaves. You do undocumented workers a disservice by advocating their cause with so exaggerated a claim. I suggest reading https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/in-depth/news/2019/06/03/alabama-state-holiday-jefferson-davis-birthday-where-lord-9-slave-testimonies/3740398002 https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/in-depth/news/2019/06/0.... It's hard to find the stomach even to read about. That was a whole different level of violence and brutality, and it doesn't minimize anybody's plight now to say so.
  - daenz 6y ago
    It's interesting that you find the the technicalities of my comparison more concerning than the actual modern day slavery taking place right under our noses. Rather than speak out for current victims being exploited right now, you are choosing to say "well it's not as bad as X". Take a step back and see how that is harmful.
hedora 6y ago
Slavery is still legal in the US (it was never completely banned). > The Thirteenth Amendment forbade slavery and involuntary servitude, “except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.“ There are about 2.1 million people in the prison system. They’re forced to work, disproportionately african american, or other minorities. Many were wrongfully convicted. Their work props up a multi-billion dollar industry. This doesn’t count refugees, who are also forced to work in US immigration camps. But, yeah, to agree with your point, many people apparently think this is totally OK. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-labor-in-america/406177/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_... https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/making-profits-on-the-captive-prison-market https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/making-profits-o... https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/us/immigrant-detention-forced-labor-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/us/immigrant-detention-forced...
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I pointed it out to my wife once, but the general look was that of disbelief. It was clearly internalized that this is how things should be. The prisoners are not slaves. They are prisoners. They have a debt to society and they better work it off. If anything, things are too easy on the prison population. It was an interesting revelation. I doubt this is an uncommon view.
- burgerzzz 6y ago
  Are they really forced though? My understanding is that working a job while incarcerated is something inmates who want lower sentences or just be out of their cell, besides how would you even force them? They can obviously just say no.

by tensor 6y ago

zepto 6y ago

It seems like it isn’t abnormal - what exactly is normal? Neither seem ‘ok’ for what that is worth.

daenz 6y ago

>But it would still be absolutely appalling if slavery were to come back today. I've got news for you: undocumented labor makes up 9% of California's labor force [0]. Undocumented workers don't have the same exact conditions as slaves, but I'll leave the research to you as to why their position is one of extraordinary vulnerability and abuse at the hands of employers. People proudly tout California as the USA's largest agricultural exporter, but they don't acknowledge why it's possible. 0. https://www.epi.org/publication/california-immigrant-labor-laws/ https://www.epi.org/publication/california-immigrant-labor-l...

neonate 6y ago
Vulnerable to abuse as those workers are, that situation is not close to what was done to the slaves. You do undocumented workers a disservice by advocating their cause with so exaggerated a claim. I suggest reading https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/in-depth/news/2019/06/03/alabama-state-holiday-jefferson-davis-birthday-where-lord-9-slave-testimonies/3740398002 https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/in-depth/news/2019/06/0.... It's hard to find the stomach even to read about. That was a whole different level of violence and brutality, and it doesn't minimize anybody's plight now to say so.
- daenz 6y ago
  It's interesting that you find the the technicalities of my comparison more concerning than the actual modern day slavery taking place right under our noses. Rather than speak out for current victims being exploited right now, you are choosing to say "well it's not as bad as X". Take a step back and see how that is harmful.

hedora 6y ago

Slavery is still legal in the US (it was never completely banned). > The Thirteenth Amendment forbade slavery and involuntary servitude, “except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted.“ There are about 2.1 million people in the prison system. They’re forced to work, disproportionately african american, or other minorities. Many were wrongfully convicted. Their work props up a multi-billion dollar industry. This doesn’t count refugees, who are also forced to work in US immigration camps. But, yeah, to agree with your point, many people apparently think this is totally OK. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-labor-in-america/406177/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_... https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/making-profits-on-the-captive-prison-market https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/making-profits-o... https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/us/immigrant-detention-forced-labor-lawsuit/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/us/immigrant-detention-forced...

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I pointed it out to my wife once, but the general look was that of disbelief. It was clearly internalized that this is how things should be. The prisoners are not slaves. They are prisoners. They have a debt to society and they better work it off. If anything, things are too easy on the prison population. It was an interesting revelation. I doubt this is an uncommon view.
burgerzzz 6y ago
Are they really forced though? My understanding is that working a job while incarcerated is something inmates who want lower sentences or just be out of their cell, besides how would you even force them? They can obviously just say no.