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I have previously described Seattle as "car hostile" and this is continuing evidence that this descriptor is apt. Anyone who has been to Seattle recently will p

I have previously described Seattle as "car hostile" and this is continuing evidence that this descriptor is apt. Anyone who has been to Seattle recently will probably attest to the serious quality of life improvements these moves create. Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts.

avree 6y ago
Any particular reason why you chose Amazon as the company that should be paying for a public utility for some reason? What about Microsoft, Boeing, University of Washington... what's the criteria by which a company becomes responsible for public works in your mind?
- y2bd 6y ago
  One potential reason to prefer Amazon over Microsoft and Boeing here is that Amazon is majority in Seattle proper, while the vast majority of Microsoft and Boeing are outside of the city (e.g. Redmond, Bellevue).
  - philwelch 6y ago
    And if the city tries to “soak” Amazon too much, they will move outside of the city, too.
    - intopieces 6y ago
      When has a tech company ever left a city due to taxes? As far as I can tell, sky high taxes haven't impacted the Bay Area one bit.
      - philwelch 6y ago
        I don’t think Amazon would leave the Seattle area entirely, just the city limits. And not even SF has imposed the level of taxation Seattle’s local socialist movement keeps trying to impose on Amazon. (NB: I’m not using “socialist” as a slur; Seattle has an actual socialist movement with one council member openly affiliating with the “Socialist Alternative Party”).
        ironmagma 6y ago
        Sure, but Amazon can probably afford it seeing as how they pay $0 in federal income tax unlike a lot of other companies including those in the Bay Area.
        philwelch 6y ago
        Amazon pays $0 in federal income tax because they reinvest all of their profits into their own growth. Most of the tech industry does the same thing. They "can afford" a lot of things, sure. But at some point it won't be cost-effective for them anymore, and I suspect they will reach that point long before the demagogues of Seattle's extreme left reach the limit of how much they want to extract from Amazon's coffers.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        The fact that the Amazon executives are extraordinarily well paid seems to contradict that claim. Besides, saying there is “some point” at which the tax is too much is the same as saying “they don’t have infinite money.” Of course; no company does. Amazon has a limit to what it can pay in taxes, but the point is it’s nowhere near $0.
        philwelch 6y ago
        > The fact that the Amazon executives are extraordinarily well paid seems to contradict that claim. Tell you what: you go and do a better job than Amazon of growing a large scale business year after year by paying executives less and maybe then your opinion will be worth something.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        The funny thing about your comment is that it presumes we are talking about opinion, when really it’s just a logical progression. Unless you can see a valid counterargument besides one that employs a logical fallacy [1]. [1] https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-False-Authority https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-...
- Klonoar 6y ago
  I live smack dab in downtown Seattle, and I can throw a rock from my window and hit an Amazon building. Microsoft and Boeing don't have the same presence in Seattle proper. UW contributes quite a bit to the area for their size. I'll give Amazon kudos for helping keep many businesses down here alive through the pandemic so far, as much as I hate the company. Other than that... they could do more.
- intopieces 6y ago
  Whenever a company has as much office space in a city as that city's next 40 biggest employers combined. [0] [1]https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazon-seattle-is-now-americas-biggest-company-town/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazo...
Twirrim 6y ago
> Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts. Can't speak to it recently, but Amazon has repeatedly paid large lump sums to the city for public transport, to expand routes and coverage of where their offices are. They also 100% cover the cost of ORCA cards for employees, which will cost them a pretty penny with the city. If public transport isn't getting enough money out of Amazon to meet needs, they're undercharging Amazon for those cards.
SamReidHughes 6y ago
Aren’t there already property taxes? That seems proportionate.
viburnum 6y ago
How is seattle car hostile?
- intopieces 6y ago
  They are actively removing parking spots and downtown driving lanes in favor of rail and just... places for people to sit. It’s incredible.
  - viburnum 6y ago
    I heard they even developed parking lots into places for people to work and live. It’s incredible.
    - intopieces 6y ago
      I'm not sure if this is unique to Seattle but I noticed that they have parking maximums for some new buildings, and they reduced the minimums to 1 spot per 6 units for affordable housing. That's a major step in the right direction.

avree 6y ago

Any particular reason why you chose Amazon as the company that should be paying for a public utility for some reason? What about Microsoft, Boeing, University of Washington... what's the criteria by which a company becomes responsible for public works in your mind?

y2bd 6y ago
One potential reason to prefer Amazon over Microsoft and Boeing here is that Amazon is majority in Seattle proper, while the vast majority of Microsoft and Boeing are outside of the city (e.g. Redmond, Bellevue).
- philwelch 6y ago
  And if the city tries to “soak” Amazon too much, they will move outside of the city, too.
  - intopieces 6y ago
    When has a tech company ever left a city due to taxes? As far as I can tell, sky high taxes haven't impacted the Bay Area one bit.
    - philwelch 6y ago
      I don’t think Amazon would leave the Seattle area entirely, just the city limits. And not even SF has imposed the level of taxation Seattle’s local socialist movement keeps trying to impose on Amazon. (NB: I’m not using “socialist” as a slur; Seattle has an actual socialist movement with one council member openly affiliating with the “Socialist Alternative Party”).
      - ironmagma 6y ago
        Sure, but Amazon can probably afford it seeing as how they pay $0 in federal income tax unlike a lot of other companies including those in the Bay Area.
        philwelch 6y ago
        Amazon pays $0 in federal income tax because they reinvest all of their profits into their own growth. Most of the tech industry does the same thing. They "can afford" a lot of things, sure. But at some point it won't be cost-effective for them anymore, and I suspect they will reach that point long before the demagogues of Seattle's extreme left reach the limit of how much they want to extract from Amazon's coffers.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        The fact that the Amazon executives are extraordinarily well paid seems to contradict that claim. Besides, saying there is “some point” at which the tax is too much is the same as saying “they don’t have infinite money.” Of course; no company does. Amazon has a limit to what it can pay in taxes, but the point is it’s nowhere near $0.
        philwelch 6y ago
        > The fact that the Amazon executives are extraordinarily well paid seems to contradict that claim. Tell you what: you go and do a better job than Amazon of growing a large scale business year after year by paying executives less and maybe then your opinion will be worth something.
        ironmagma 6y ago
        The funny thing about your comment is that it presumes we are talking about opinion, when really it’s just a logical progression. Unless you can see a valid counterargument besides one that employs a logical fallacy [1]. [1] https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-False-Authority https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-...
Klonoar 6y ago
I live smack dab in downtown Seattle, and I can throw a rock from my window and hit an Amazon building. Microsoft and Boeing don't have the same presence in Seattle proper. UW contributes quite a bit to the area for their size. I'll give Amazon kudos for helping keep many businesses down here alive through the pandemic so far, as much as I hate the company. Other than that... they could do more.
intopieces 6y ago
Whenever a company has as much office space in a city as that city's next 40 biggest employers combined. [0] [1]https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazon-seattle-is-now-americas-biggest-company-town/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/thanks-to-amazo...

Twirrim 6y ago

> Next step: soak the hell out of Amazon for public transit. Seriously. They should go fucking nuts. Can't speak to it recently, but Amazon has repeatedly paid large lump sums to the city for public transport, to expand routes and coverage of where their offices are. They also 100% cover the cost of ORCA cards for employees, which will cost them a pretty penny with the city. If public transport isn't getting enough money out of Amazon to meet needs, they're undercharging Amazon for those cards.

SamReidHughes 6y ago

Aren’t there already property taxes? That seems proportionate.

viburnum 6y ago

How is seattle car hostile?

intopieces 6y ago
They are actively removing parking spots and downtown driving lanes in favor of rail and just... places for people to sit. It’s incredible.
- viburnum 6y ago
  I heard they even developed parking lots into places for people to work and live. It’s incredible.
  - intopieces 6y ago
    I'm not sure if this is unique to Seattle but I noticed that they have parking maximums for some new buildings, and they reduced the minimums to 1 spot per 6 units for affordable housing. That's a major step in the right direction.