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What makes you think React/Angular are products to increase user experience? Of course you won't find that, they are tools for developers to streamline developm

What makes you think React/Angular are products to increase user experience? Of course you won't find that, they are tools for developers to streamline development and make maintenance easier. Have you worked on a platform that uses nothing but pure JS and fetch calls? I have, and there's no way to make sense of a project that has to deal with so many things.

revscat 6y ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hA79vKE_E https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hA79vKE_E
- BoumTAC 6y ago
  why is it downvote ? This link just show you can create a basic twitter like application in 10 minutes with the right tool. Imagine how many hours/days it would take with any JavaScript framework !
  - Kaze404 6y ago
    Probably because a Twitter close isn't even close to a complex application. You can build one in React/Vue just as fast as you would without them.
    - tambourine_man 6y ago
      Yeah, it's a common trope. Everyone can create a Twitter/Facebook/Instagram clone in a week or so of intense work. But that's not actually the hard part. What's hard is getting millions of users in the first place and scaling to that magnitude. In that order.
tambourine_man 6y ago
>they are tools for developers to streamline development and make maintenance easier. I'm not convinced they are successful at that either.
datasage 6y ago
Anytime you need to stream data to or from a client, like audio/video or data. Single page apps have a much better experience. From an architecture standpoint, it does also allow a much simpler separation of concerns. That said, it does it get used more often that it should and can take more time to build than a multi-page app.
- dralley 6y ago
  Fucking gmail, for example. The new SPA version is far, far slower than the old HTML version, and uses a truly insane amount of memory. I have 2 gmail tabs open, and according to Firefox's about:performance page, one is using 140mb of RAM, the other is using 95mb, and both are at the very top of the list in terms of CPU usage. Above even YouTube in both CPU and memory, which is itself fairly bloated. It is absolutely disgraceful.
- neop1x 6y ago
  Google Cloud Console felt slow to me too. And the user experience could sometimes be better too. For example: I set filters in a table of items, clicked many times to Next to paginate on the 10th page. Then I accidentally clicked on an item on the page, detail page shows. Clicking browser' Back button takes me back but the filter is cleared and I am on the page #1 again. State was not persisted so I could start filtering and paginating again. I am not 100% sure but I think it was the Quota listing. The old, document-style pages used to hold state!
Benjammer 6y ago
Humans have been using physical and mental systems to manage complexity for eons, I simply can't understand this argument. React doesn't automatically fix spaghetti code if you don't know how to organize a platform-sized code base efficiently in the first place.
- aerovistae 6y ago
  This is like saying "cabinets don't help organize a kitchen if you don't put anything in them" -- I mean, duh, you have to use it right. That's not an argument to have no cabinets. There's a reason nearly ALL major web applications rely on a _framework_....rails, django, laravel, you name it. These exist because it's really hard to organize vanilla code without a framework. React and FE JS are no different. If you're arguing against using a FE framework to organize FE code, you're basically saying "We don't need frameworks in general! All code should be inherently organized!" That's not realistic. It's just not feasible when you have a large project.
  - marcodave 6y ago
    > This is like saying "cabinets don't help organize a kitchen if you don't put anything in them" -- I mean, duh, you have to use it right. That's not an argument to have no cabinets. Good counterpoint. Parent comment sound too much like the "TRUE programmers don't use data structures" old meme
  - Benjammer 6y ago
    Yeesh, you've badly misinterpreted my comment. Re-reading it, I'm partly to blame here. >That's not an argument to have no cabinets. This isn't the point I was trying to make. I didn't mean to piggy back on this part of the parent comment: "Have you worked on a platform that uses nothing but pure JS and fetch calls?" I meant to respond to this part of the parent: "they are tools for developers to streamline development and make maintenance easier." I often find that the most ardent React fans will see "not React" and jump immediately to "spaghetti of vanilla js and fetch calls," with no further questions asked. I'm trying to argue against React dogmatism, I'm not arguing in favor of "no framework" dogmatism.

revscat 6y ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hA79vKE_E https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hA79vKE_E

BoumTAC 6y ago
why is it downvote ? This link just show you can create a basic twitter like application in 10 minutes with the right tool. Imagine how many hours/days it would take with any JavaScript framework !
- Kaze404 6y ago
  Probably because a Twitter close isn't even close to a complex application. You can build one in React/Vue just as fast as you would without them.
  - tambourine_man 6y ago
    Yeah, it's a common trope. Everyone can create a Twitter/Facebook/Instagram clone in a week or so of intense work. But that's not actually the hard part. What's hard is getting millions of users in the first place and scaling to that magnitude. In that order.

tambourine_man 6y ago

>they are tools for developers to streamline development and make maintenance easier. I'm not convinced they are successful at that either.

datasage 6y ago

Anytime you need to stream data to or from a client, like audio/video or data. Single page apps have a much better experience. From an architecture standpoint, it does also allow a much simpler separation of concerns. That said, it does it get used more often that it should and can take more time to build than a multi-page app.

dralley 6y ago
Fucking gmail, for example. The new SPA version is far, far slower than the old HTML version, and uses a truly insane amount of memory. I have 2 gmail tabs open, and according to Firefox's about:performance page, one is using 140mb of RAM, the other is using 95mb, and both are at the very top of the list in terms of CPU usage. Above even YouTube in both CPU and memory, which is itself fairly bloated. It is absolutely disgraceful.
neop1x 6y ago
Google Cloud Console felt slow to me too. And the user experience could sometimes be better too. For example: I set filters in a table of items, clicked many times to Next to paginate on the 10th page. Then I accidentally clicked on an item on the page, detail page shows. Clicking browser' Back button takes me back but the filter is cleared and I am on the page #1 again. State was not persisted so I could start filtering and paginating again. I am not 100% sure but I think it was the Quota listing. The old, document-style pages used to hold state!

Benjammer 6y ago

Humans have been using physical and mental systems to manage complexity for eons, I simply can't understand this argument. React doesn't automatically fix spaghetti code if you don't know how to organize a platform-sized code base efficiently in the first place.

aerovistae 6y ago
This is like saying "cabinets don't help organize a kitchen if you don't put anything in them" -- I mean, duh, you have to use it right. That's not an argument to have no cabinets. There's a reason nearly ALL major web applications rely on a _framework_....rails, django, laravel, you name it. These exist because it's really hard to organize vanilla code without a framework. React and FE JS are no different. If you're arguing against using a FE framework to organize FE code, you're basically saying "We don't need frameworks in general! All code should be inherently organized!" That's not realistic. It's just not feasible when you have a large project.
- marcodave 6y ago
  > This is like saying "cabinets don't help organize a kitchen if you don't put anything in them" -- I mean, duh, you have to use it right. That's not an argument to have no cabinets. Good counterpoint. Parent comment sound too much like the "TRUE programmers don't use data structures" old meme
- Benjammer 6y ago
  Yeesh, you've badly misinterpreted my comment. Re-reading it, I'm partly to blame here. >That's not an argument to have no cabinets. This isn't the point I was trying to make. I didn't mean to piggy back on this part of the parent comment: "Have you worked on a platform that uses nothing but pure JS and fetch calls?" I meant to respond to this part of the parent: "they are tools for developers to streamline development and make maintenance easier." I often find that the most ardent React fans will see "not React" and jump immediately to "spaghetti of vanilla js and fetch calls," with no further questions asked. I'm trying to argue against React dogmatism, I'm not arguing in favor of "no framework" dogmatism.