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> The role of government is to protect the weak from the strong The role of government is to maintain the social order, the basic social relations w.r.t. owner

> The role of government is to protect the weak from the strong The role of government is to maintain the social order, the basic social relations w.r.t. ownership of property, particularly capital like land, production facilities, access to natural resources etc. This means mostly protecting the interests of the strong few against the weak many. In some cases of misconduct by powerful individuals or companies - outside the bounds of the acceptable and resulting in potential jeopardy of the social order - it may protect the weak against the powerful as well.

scarface74 7y ago
How has the government protecting the weak and minorities worked out - during the entire history of the US? In the US “it’s not the strong few”. The majority can and does use the government to impose its will.
- einpoklum 7y ago
  That's like saying the wind imposes its will on a sailing ship. It's not entirely false, in the sense that the ship only goes in a direction that's not upwind, but - the ship uses the sail angle to take angled directions to that of the wind, or just furls up the sails - and eventually goes where the people sailing it want to. I hope the simile is clear enough... Specifically - persecution of minorities is not a "natural" social phenomenon, it is very much an acquired tendency on the personal level and encouraged and stoked by social, economical, and political institutions.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    It doesn’t matter why it happens. The fact is it does happen by the same political institutions that people want to give more power to.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      Do you actually want to go back to the days of companies beating workers when they collapse partway through a 13 hour day and paying them in store credit? Or can you agree that giving government the power to make those things illegal was a good idea?
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Assault has always been against the law. But you expect the same government to “protect workers” when they just made people go back to work in the meat industry by invoking a law meant to be used in times of war?
        kerkeslager 7y ago
        > Assault has always been against the law. But you expect the same government to “protect workers” when they just made people go back to work in the meat industry by invoking a law meant to be used in times of war? Well, obviously I'd prefer the government used their powers for good, i.e. actually protect workers.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  Well, it has been a discovery process, but we have the Bill of Rights, the Thirteenth Amendment, The Meat Inspection Act, The Pure Food and Drug Act, The Fifteenth Amendment, The Civil Rights Act, HIPAA, The Americans with Disabilities Act... the list goes on. And that's not to mention the basic places where government protects the weak from the strong, like arresting murderers and rapists. So, I'd say, while it certainly could be working better, it's working out a lot better than you're giving it credit for.
kerkeslager 7y ago
Okay, I should have been clearer in my previous post. I want the role of government to be protecting the weak from the strong.

scarface74 7y ago

How has the government protecting the weak and minorities worked out - during the entire history of the US? In the US “it’s not the strong few”. The majority can and does use the government to impose its will.

einpoklum 7y ago
That's like saying the wind imposes its will on a sailing ship. It's not entirely false, in the sense that the ship only goes in a direction that's not upwind, but - the ship uses the sail angle to take angled directions to that of the wind, or just furls up the sails - and eventually goes where the people sailing it want to. I hope the simile is clear enough... Specifically - persecution of minorities is not a "natural" social phenomenon, it is very much an acquired tendency on the personal level and encouraged and stoked by social, economical, and political institutions.
- scarface74 7y ago
  It doesn’t matter why it happens. The fact is it does happen by the same political institutions that people want to give more power to.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    Do you actually want to go back to the days of companies beating workers when they collapse partway through a 13 hour day and paying them in store credit? Or can you agree that giving government the power to make those things illegal was a good idea?
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Assault has always been against the law. But you expect the same government to “protect workers” when they just made people go back to work in the meat industry by invoking a law meant to be used in times of war?
      - kerkeslager 7y ago
        > Assault has always been against the law. But you expect the same government to “protect workers” when they just made people go back to work in the meat industry by invoking a law meant to be used in times of war? Well, obviously I'd prefer the government used their powers for good, i.e. actually protect workers.
kerkeslager 7y ago
Well, it has been a discovery process, but we have the Bill of Rights, the Thirteenth Amendment, The Meat Inspection Act, The Pure Food and Drug Act, The Fifteenth Amendment, The Civil Rights Act, HIPAA, The Americans with Disabilities Act... the list goes on. And that's not to mention the basic places where government protects the weak from the strong, like arresting murderers and rapists. So, I'd say, while it certainly could be working better, it's working out a lot better than you're giving it credit for.

kerkeslager 7y ago

Okay, I should have been clearer in my previous post. I want the role of government to be protecting the weak from the strong.