5 ms·

I think you could add Twitter and New Reddit to the list as well.

edhelas 6y ago
In France we have a Craiglist-like website. They recently moved to ReactJS : https://www.leboncoin.fr/ https://www.leboncoin.fr/ The website features didn't changed in between. It's basically a pagination + a search based on radius (so DB related) + name (so DB related) + categories (so DB related). The complete website could be build in pure HTML + CSS and a bit of JS + Ajax to refresh parts of it. But no, it's build with ReactJS, and it takes seconds to search a simple item on it. To compare, just try the same search on the Dutch equivalent, MarktPlaats, https://www.marktplaats.nl/ https://www.marktplaats.nl/. The experience is way snappier, way lighter, the features are the same, and it's just HTML + CSS + a bit of JS. We made a mistake with React/Vue/Angular. And we should really go back and stop using those frameworks.
- girishso 6y ago
  Agreed. SPAs only make sense for few websites like Trello, for most other websites plain dynamic HTML with dash of ajax here and there are much better.
  - pier25 6y ago
    You know it's possible to use any of the modern JS frameworks without SPA, right?
- julosflb 6y ago
  Could not agree more. It is barely usable now. The exact opposite of the original spirit. A complete failure.
- pier25 6y ago
  > And we should really go back and stop using those frameworks I think you are cherry picking. There are plenty of examples in the modern web of terrible React/etc implementations but that doesn't mean the approach in itself is bad.
  - deanCommie 6y ago
    Please name some.
    - pier25 6y ago
      Some good React alternatives?
      - mhoad 6y ago
        I’ve been plying around with lit-element lately and am finding it a much simpler experience overall. Likely a lot faster as well https://youtu.be/uCHZJy2n8Qs https://youtu.be/uCHZJy2n8Qs
        pier25 6y ago
        Lit is excellent. It's also possible to use htm with Preact for developing without a bundler if your target users support ES6. https://github.com/developit/htm https://github.com/developit/htm
  - kolanos 6y ago
    > There are plenty of examples in the modern web of terrible React/etc implementations but that doesn't mean the approach in itself is bad. If the creators of React can't get it right, then what hope is there?
    - pier25 6y ago
      React is bloated and slow, but there are dozens of frameworks other than React. https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/current.html https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/current.ht...
- amedvednikov 6y ago
  It has 96 .js scripts on a single page.
  - pyronite 6y ago
    This used to be a bigger deal before HTTP/2 increased the number of concurrent requests to be virtually unlimited. Unless I'm missing something, it's "optimal" for a site to have many split files. If their JavaScript were 1 file, a change to a single character would mean the need to re-download every bit of JavaScript. Instead, with 96 files, it would mean 95 of them are still cached client-side and only 1 is need of downloading.
    - thomaslord 6y ago
      It looks to me like these scripts are asynchronously-loaded components that load only once they're needed. In this case it looks suspiciously like they're nested and each script download causes another script to be downloaded once the component renders, which would make HTTP/2 a moot point. I can even watch the requests pile up in the dev tools when they're cached, so my guess is if they dumped everything in one file (or even 10 files, just not 95) they'd get noticeably improved performance.
- fbnlsr 6y ago
  Thank you for this post. I yell at my screen each time I have to use leboncoin. It was super ugly, but it did the job. Now it's super ugly, but it steals my focus at every opportunity, refreshes parts of the UI I'm about to click, or has select inputs that love to play hide and seek with my cursor. It's a UX nightmare. I must say their new payment system is nice. But boy do we have to suffer when looking for something to buy now.
- goatlover 6y ago
  What's the reason for redoing a website that provides the same functionality? Why use an SPA for basic website features?
- neop1x 6y ago
  They made the same with local Czech eBay-like website https://www.aukro.cz/ https://www.aukro.cz/ . Previously it was a fast website. Transition to the webapp was painful, their filtering component was not working properly on mobile. It still takes several seconds until the initial white page switches to the rendered DOM. They lost many customers due to this painful transition. I think they fixed some of the problems (I know filtering component works ok now) but I basically stopped using it since that transition too.
troughway 6y ago
Twitter and the new Reddit aren't in the same category. Twitter is still somewhat usable. Reddit, on the other hand, is an absolute clusterfuck from layout and usability perspective. The choices made were not made for monetary gain, they are simply really bad design choices that for one reason or another have not been fixed.
- pier25 6y ago
  Totally agree. It's incredible that ugly old.reddit.com with RES still provides a better user experience.
- mrweasel 6y ago
  Aah, the Reddit redesign. I still can't use it. I check up on it once in a while, but my 7 year old MacBook Pro still don't like it. It remains slow, regardless of the number of times Reddit claims of have improved the speed. On the phone it's even worse, a large number of subreddit now require that you use the app... unless you just go to old.reddit.com. The point of the reddit redesign still alludes me. Sure the old design isn't mobile friendly, so I can understand that they would want to fix that. Then again they mainly use the redesign to push the app. And the new design isn't that mobile friendly anyway. Certainly not if you value battery life. Comments are now also hidden by default, which is just weird. But you have infinite scroll, which seems to be the main selling point. I'm not sure I needed that though.
- v7p1Qbt1im 6y ago
  I like the redesign actually. The default view is terrible, though. Once you start using classic or compact view it‘s usable. Like 80% of my reddit usage is on mobile by now, though. So it doesn‘t matter that much to me.
TechBro8615 6y ago
Mobile twitter website gives me an “oops, something went wrong” or “you’re doing that too much” error probably about 50% of the time I open a link to it.
notyourwork 6y ago
Yes! I use old.reddit.com and am not a twitter user so I don't have much exposure there.
ljm 6y ago
I sort of tolerated New Reddit at first, until I experienced first hand their (to the user) cynical reasons for doing it. Namely: throwing mobile app prompts in your face, blocking some reddits unless you're logged in, inserting ads masquerading as proper posts... Even then, I could cope with some of it, except that they just totally broke the experience with shitty infinite scrolling. You can't click a damn thing and hope to go back to where you left on a post. Sometimes even old.reddit.com will redirect you to the new version now. These redesigns would suck less if they were more about being functional and not about scraping every last morsel of engagement from unwitting visitors, through whichever devious methods they can imagine.

In France we have a Craiglist-like website. They recently moved to ReactJS : https://www.leboncoin.fr/ https://www.leboncoin.fr/ The website features didn't changed in between. It's basically a pagination + a search based on radius (so DB related) + name (so DB related) + categories (so DB related). The complete website could be build in pure HTML + CSS and a bit of JS + Ajax to refresh parts of it. But no, it's build with ReactJS, and it takes seconds to search a simple item on it. To compare, just try the same search on the Dutch equivalent, MarktPlaats, https://www.marktplaats.nl/ https://www.marktplaats.nl/. The experience is way snappier, way lighter, the features are the same, and it's just HTML + CSS + a bit of JS. We made a mistake with React/Vue/Angular. And we should really go back and stop using those frameworks.

girishso 6y ago
Agreed. SPAs only make sense for few websites like Trello, for most other websites plain dynamic HTML with dash of ajax here and there are much better.
- pier25 6y ago
  You know it's possible to use any of the modern JS frameworks without SPA, right?
julosflb 6y ago
Could not agree more. It is barely usable now. The exact opposite of the original spirit. A complete failure.
pier25 6y ago
> And we should really go back and stop using those frameworks I think you are cherry picking. There are plenty of examples in the modern web of terrible React/etc implementations but that doesn't mean the approach in itself is bad.
- deanCommie 6y ago
  Please name some.
  - pier25 6y ago
    Some good React alternatives?
    - mhoad 6y ago
      I’ve been plying around with lit-element lately and am finding it a much simpler experience overall. Likely a lot faster as well https://youtu.be/uCHZJy2n8Qs https://youtu.be/uCHZJy2n8Qs
      - pier25 6y ago
        Lit is excellent. It's also possible to use htm with Preact for developing without a bundler if your target users support ES6. https://github.com/developit/htm https://github.com/developit/htm
- kolanos 6y ago
  > There are plenty of examples in the modern web of terrible React/etc implementations but that doesn't mean the approach in itself is bad. If the creators of React can't get it right, then what hope is there?
  - pier25 6y ago
    React is bloated and slow, but there are dozens of frameworks other than React. https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/current.html https://krausest.github.io/js-framework-benchmark/current.ht...
amedvednikov 6y ago
It has 96 .js scripts on a single page.
- pyronite 6y ago
  This used to be a bigger deal before HTTP/2 increased the number of concurrent requests to be virtually unlimited. Unless I'm missing something, it's "optimal" for a site to have many split files. If their JavaScript were 1 file, a change to a single character would mean the need to re-download every bit of JavaScript. Instead, with 96 files, it would mean 95 of them are still cached client-side and only 1 is need of downloading.
  - thomaslord 6y ago
    It looks to me like these scripts are asynchronously-loaded components that load only once they're needed. In this case it looks suspiciously like they're nested and each script download causes another script to be downloaded once the component renders, which would make HTTP/2 a moot point. I can even watch the requests pile up in the dev tools when they're cached, so my guess is if they dumped everything in one file (or even 10 files, just not 95) they'd get noticeably improved performance.
fbnlsr 6y ago
Thank you for this post. I yell at my screen each time I have to use leboncoin. It was super ugly, but it did the job. Now it's super ugly, but it steals my focus at every opportunity, refreshes parts of the UI I'm about to click, or has select inputs that love to play hide and seek with my cursor. It's a UX nightmare. I must say their new payment system is nice. But boy do we have to suffer when looking for something to buy now.
goatlover 6y ago
What's the reason for redoing a website that provides the same functionality? Why use an SPA for basic website features?
neop1x 6y ago
They made the same with local Czech eBay-like website https://www.aukro.cz/ https://www.aukro.cz/ . Previously it was a fast website. Transition to the webapp was painful, their filtering component was not working properly on mobile. It still takes several seconds until the initial white page switches to the rendered DOM. They lost many customers due to this painful transition. I think they fixed some of the problems (I know filtering component works ok now) but I basically stopped using it since that transition too.

troughway 6y ago

Twitter and the new Reddit aren't in the same category. Twitter is still somewhat usable. Reddit, on the other hand, is an absolute clusterfuck from layout and usability perspective. The choices made were not made for monetary gain, they are simply really bad design choices that for one reason or another have not been fixed.

pier25 6y ago
Totally agree. It's incredible that ugly old.reddit.com with RES still provides a better user experience.
mrweasel 6y ago
Aah, the Reddit redesign. I still can't use it. I check up on it once in a while, but my 7 year old MacBook Pro still don't like it. It remains slow, regardless of the number of times Reddit claims of have improved the speed. On the phone it's even worse, a large number of subreddit now require that you use the app... unless you just go to old.reddit.com. The point of the reddit redesign still alludes me. Sure the old design isn't mobile friendly, so I can understand that they would want to fix that. Then again they mainly use the redesign to push the app. And the new design isn't that mobile friendly anyway. Certainly not if you value battery life. Comments are now also hidden by default, which is just weird. But you have infinite scroll, which seems to be the main selling point. I'm not sure I needed that though.
v7p1Qbt1im 6y ago
I like the redesign actually. The default view is terrible, though. Once you start using classic or compact view it‘s usable. Like 80% of my reddit usage is on mobile by now, though. So it doesn‘t matter that much to me.

TechBro8615 6y ago

Mobile twitter website gives me an “oops, something went wrong” or “you’re doing that too much” error probably about 50% of the time I open a link to it.

notyourwork 6y ago

Yes! I use old.reddit.com and am not a twitter user so I don't have much exposure there.

ljm 6y ago

I sort of tolerated New Reddit at first, until I experienced first hand their (to the user) cynical reasons for doing it. Namely: throwing mobile app prompts in your face, blocking some reddits unless you're logged in, inserting ads masquerading as proper posts... Even then, I could cope with some of it, except that they just totally broke the experience with shitty infinite scrolling. You can't click a damn thing and hope to go back to where you left on a post. Sometimes even old.reddit.com will redirect you to the new version now. These redesigns would suck less if they were more about being functional and not about scraping every last morsel of engagement from unwitting visitors, through whichever devious methods they can imagine.