3 ms·

Nurses are spat on, thrown bodily fluid at, bitten on a daily basis. That the USA practically abolished involuntary admission to mental wards is what creates sc

by _pmf_ 6y ago

Nurses are spat on, thrown bodily fluid at, bitten on a daily basis. That the USA practically abolished involuntary admission to mental wards is what creates scenes like in the beginning of the article.

mariodiana 6y ago
> Staff at the local hospital in tiny Madill, Oklahoma, called the police in the early evening of March 24, 2011, for help giving Johnny Leija an injection to calm him. I don't want to jump to defend the cops, but you bring up a point that jibes with my suspicion. Just look at that opening sentence to the article. Don't you suspect understatement there? Hospital staff deal all the time with patients who are upset because they're having trouble breathing, which is what I'm guessing someone who comes in sick from a week with pneumonia might exhibit. I'm quite sure calling the cops isn't their go-to protocol. So, if it came to their wanting to give him an injection "to calm him," I think responsible journalism would have tried to get a better picture of exactly what an "un-calm" Mr. Leija was like. I doubt he looked like he did in the first 7 seconds of that video. That said, I am of a mind to believe that cops escalate too often, when they could deescalate if they tried. The bottom line is, if you ask me, there is more to this story.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  > I'm quite sure calling the cops isn't their go-to protocol. You'd be entirely wrong. The major hospital in my state capital, where I work as a paramedic for the EMS system, 400 beds, a 5 unit secure mental area in the ED, serving a population of 200,000... ... has 4 security officers 24/7. "Tiny Madill, OK" has a population of 3,000. The "hospital" is a glorified urgent care (https://www.alliancehealthdurant.com/alliancehealth-madill https://www.alliancehealthdurant.com/alliancehealth-madill). If they have 24/7 security, and that's a big if, as I've delivered patients to and from similar hospitals in the outreaches of our county and surrounds, there would be most likely 1 person. And in those cases, absolutely calling LE is the go to. Hell, even my hospital described above does, when someone proves problematic, violent. > That said, I am of a mind to believe that cops escalate too often, when they could deescalate if they tried. Very true. I train new EMTs and de-escalation is a big part of their patient/ scene communication training. I repeatedly see LE on calls I am on undoing whatever de-escalation my partner and I have done.
  - mariodiana 6y ago
    > when someone proves problematic, violent. This is exactly what I'm getting at, unless I'm misunderstanding you. "To calm him" is a euphemism, is what I'm saying. I specifically described it as suspected understatement. So, thank you. I'm even more sure now that I'm entirely right.
    - FireBeyond 6y ago
      No, I don't think so - we still do, _when the resources of security, nurses, EMTs and paramedics_ are exhausted, say someone in excited delirium. A smaller hospital like this one has far less of this "buffer" so their first step for any kind of potential restraint/sedation event in a behavioral setting quite likely will involve calling police, from their own liability perspective, in situations a larger hospital could likely handle more easily. I am not advocating for this. I think LE has near zero role to play in these scenarios except for the _very limited_ "poses an imminent danger to self or others". But in a town of three thousand people, I guarantee that when a behavioral crisis escalates at the local "hospital" (I couldn't even find how many beds it has, likely under 10), for better or worse, the police are being called.
      - mariodiana 6y ago
        Okay, thank you.

by _pmf_ 6y ago

mariodiana 6y ago

> Staff at the local hospital in tiny Madill, Oklahoma, called the police in the early evening of March 24, 2011, for help giving Johnny Leija an injection to calm him. I don't want to jump to defend the cops, but you bring up a point that jibes with my suspicion. Just look at that opening sentence to the article. Don't you suspect understatement there? Hospital staff deal all the time with patients who are upset because they're having trouble breathing, which is what I'm guessing someone who comes in sick from a week with pneumonia might exhibit. I'm quite sure calling the cops isn't their go-to protocol. So, if it came to their wanting to give him an injection "to calm him," I think responsible journalism would have tried to get a better picture of exactly what an "un-calm" Mr. Leija was like. I doubt he looked like he did in the first 7 seconds of that video. That said, I am of a mind to believe that cops escalate too often, when they could deescalate if they tried. The bottom line is, if you ask me, there is more to this story.

FireBeyond 6y ago
> I'm quite sure calling the cops isn't their go-to protocol. You'd be entirely wrong. The major hospital in my state capital, where I work as a paramedic for the EMS system, 400 beds, a 5 unit secure mental area in the ED, serving a population of 200,000... ... has 4 security officers 24/7. "Tiny Madill, OK" has a population of 3,000. The "hospital" is a glorified urgent care (https://www.alliancehealthdurant.com/alliancehealth-madill https://www.alliancehealthdurant.com/alliancehealth-madill). If they have 24/7 security, and that's a big if, as I've delivered patients to and from similar hospitals in the outreaches of our county and surrounds, there would be most likely 1 person. And in those cases, absolutely calling LE is the go to. Hell, even my hospital described above does, when someone proves problematic, violent. > That said, I am of a mind to believe that cops escalate too often, when they could deescalate if they tried. Very true. I train new EMTs and de-escalation is a big part of their patient/ scene communication training. I repeatedly see LE on calls I am on undoing whatever de-escalation my partner and I have done.
- mariodiana 6y ago
  > when someone proves problematic, violent. This is exactly what I'm getting at, unless I'm misunderstanding you. "To calm him" is a euphemism, is what I'm saying. I specifically described it as suspected understatement. So, thank you. I'm even more sure now that I'm entirely right.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    No, I don't think so - we still do, _when the resources of security, nurses, EMTs and paramedics_ are exhausted, say someone in excited delirium. A smaller hospital like this one has far less of this "buffer" so their first step for any kind of potential restraint/sedation event in a behavioral setting quite likely will involve calling police, from their own liability perspective, in situations a larger hospital could likely handle more easily. I am not advocating for this. I think LE has near zero role to play in these scenarios except for the _very limited_ "poses an imminent danger to self or others". But in a town of three thousand people, I guarantee that when a behavioral crisis escalates at the local "hospital" (I couldn't even find how many beds it has, likely under 10), for better or worse, the police are being called.
    - mariodiana 6y ago
      Okay, thank you.