5 ms·

Everyone's talking about code, but I do this with carpentry. Right now, I'm working as a trim carpenter in residential construction, and I pride myself on doing

Everyone's talking about code, but I do this with carpentry. Right now, I'm working as a trim carpenter in residential construction, and I pride myself on doing as good a job as I can. As a result, when I come back to a job to install door hardware after everything is painted, I sometimes just wander around the house and admire my work. Especially tricky details that took a bit of thinking to get right, even if no-one else will ever notice them.

muny 7y ago
It's good to know people do this outside the programming profession. Thanks for sharing.
c22 7y ago
I do this with almost everything I make. The act of creating is an act of achieving an aesthetic you developed in your mind's eye, so it seems reasonable to want to spend some time admiring that aesthetic once achieved.
- beamatronic 7y ago
  The thing I can't get over, is that I know a lot of successfull, highly paid programmers who don't care about code at all. It's sad (to me) that they get rich, while not caring about their code.
  - nocman 6y ago
    I suspect that for some of these people, the reason they don't care is that they know it is fairly likely that their code won't last long, regardless of how awesome it might be. They will move on to other projects, possibly other jobs, and/or someone will decide it's time for a rewrite in a new language/framework, or whatever. Or the company will decide to flush their work and move to an outside provider, or to a different tool. Some people's way of dealing with that is to just not get too attached to their code. I'm not saying that all code is short-lived. Most developers I know deal with at least some code that's been around since dirt. But there is also a fair amount that gets left behind rather quickly, and neither of those scenarios necessarily has anything to do with the quality of the code nor the suitableness of it to the task at hand. Not to mention that most of us have had projects we put a lot of effort into, that fulfilled the requirements, and was done on time, only to have it rarely ever (and sometimes never) used by the people who asked for it. I think it's possible to either care too much about your code (in the sense that you often have no control over what's done with it in the long run, and you need to be able to accept that), or to care too little about it (if you're going to bother writing it, at least try to as good a job as you can under the circumstances).
space_ghost 7y ago
I wish you'd done the trim work in my new house, then. Seems like these guys did it as quickly as they possibly could and then did their best RoadRunner impression.
dehrmann 7y ago
How does one find a trim carpenter (or any skilled tradesman) who has this level of attention to detail? There's definitely two tiers of work, someone who cares and work good enough for a rental unit, and you have no idea what you're going to get until it's done.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  I hate to say it, but mostly by word of mouth. If someone's good at running and marketing a large business, it doesn't necessarily mean that they do good work, and may mean that they know how to maximise profits by cutting corners whenever they can. That's not always the case, but it seems to be pretty typical. Instead, look for the small guy who may not have a website and drives a plain van. I work for my dad, and that describes him to a tee, as well as most of the other tradesmen on the jobs we do. My dad doesn't even have a company name, nor business cards. He gets all of his work either through a few regular builders, or by word of mouth from previous customers, and is definitely not a business-man. He started carpentry with his dad after he finished high school, and just slowly grew from there. For most of his life he worked alone, but as they grew older, all of my brothers at one point worked for him full-time (it's just me now, and I'm part-time). If you do find a potential tradesman, just ask him (or her) how he does certain aspects of the job (ex. baseboard inside corners should always be coped, never mitred), and make it clear that you expect high quality work. If he asks for significant payment up-front for anything other than materials, walk away. Better yet, supply all the materials yourself, and pay a proportion of the job each day or week until it's done. One more factor to consider is price. We charge more than the typical carpenter, but not exorbitantly more. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. I've also found this to be true for auto mechanics. The run-down looking shop is more trustworthy and does better work for a better price than the highly polished franchises.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  I've noticed good trades people always take pictures of their work. I'm now wondering if it's worth asking to see images of their recent jobs.
  - 7y ago
bonniemuffin 7y ago
The guys who installed new tile in my shower put in a custom shower niche that incorporated an interesting tile pattern, and I was glad to notice them taking pictures of it when they were done. It was neat to see their pride in creating an elegant one-of-a-kind feature (in what was otherwise a fairly routine project).
- lhuser123 7y ago
  I sometimes wonder why it’s so difficult to find people like that.
  - toohotatopic 7y ago
    Are you like that?
    - menacingly 7y ago
      I wasn't expecting to be philosophically blindsided by this thread
bitwize 7y ago
"I am a builder," the end user replied. "Many of the houses of this town were made under my chop." http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/end-user.html http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/end-user.html

muny 7y ago

It's good to know people do this outside the programming profession. Thanks for sharing.

c22 7y ago

I do this with almost everything I make. The act of creating is an act of achieving an aesthetic you developed in your mind's eye, so it seems reasonable to want to spend some time admiring that aesthetic once achieved.

beamatronic 7y ago
The thing I can't get over, is that I know a lot of successfull, highly paid programmers who don't care about code at all. It's sad (to me) that they get rich, while not caring about their code.
- nocman 6y ago
  I suspect that for some of these people, the reason they don't care is that they know it is fairly likely that their code won't last long, regardless of how awesome it might be. They will move on to other projects, possibly other jobs, and/or someone will decide it's time for a rewrite in a new language/framework, or whatever. Or the company will decide to flush their work and move to an outside provider, or to a different tool. Some people's way of dealing with that is to just not get too attached to their code. I'm not saying that all code is short-lived. Most developers I know deal with at least some code that's been around since dirt. But there is also a fair amount that gets left behind rather quickly, and neither of those scenarios necessarily has anything to do with the quality of the code nor the suitableness of it to the task at hand. Not to mention that most of us have had projects we put a lot of effort into, that fulfilled the requirements, and was done on time, only to have it rarely ever (and sometimes never) used by the people who asked for it. I think it's possible to either care too much about your code (in the sense that you often have no control over what's done with it in the long run, and you need to be able to accept that), or to care too little about it (if you're going to bother writing it, at least try to as good a job as you can under the circumstances).

space_ghost 7y ago

I wish you'd done the trim work in my new house, then. Seems like these guys did it as quickly as they possibly could and then did their best RoadRunner impression.

dehrmann 7y ago

How does one find a trim carpenter (or any skilled tradesman) who has this level of attention to detail? There's definitely two tiers of work, someone who cares and work good enough for a rental unit, and you have no idea what you're going to get until it's done.

frosted-flakes 7y ago
I hate to say it, but mostly by word of mouth. If someone's good at running and marketing a large business, it doesn't necessarily mean that they do good work, and may mean that they know how to maximise profits by cutting corners whenever they can. That's not always the case, but it seems to be pretty typical. Instead, look for the small guy who may not have a website and drives a plain van. I work for my dad, and that describes him to a tee, as well as most of the other tradesmen on the jobs we do. My dad doesn't even have a company name, nor business cards. He gets all of his work either through a few regular builders, or by word of mouth from previous customers, and is definitely not a business-man. He started carpentry with his dad after he finished high school, and just slowly grew from there. For most of his life he worked alone, but as they grew older, all of my brothers at one point worked for him full-time (it's just me now, and I'm part-time). If you do find a potential tradesman, just ask him (or her) how he does certain aspects of the job (ex. baseboard inside corners should always be coped, never mitred), and make it clear that you expect high quality work. If he asks for significant payment up-front for anything other than materials, walk away. Better yet, supply all the materials yourself, and pay a proportion of the job each day or week until it's done. One more factor to consider is price. We charge more than the typical carpenter, but not exorbitantly more. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. I've also found this to be true for auto mechanics. The run-down looking shop is more trustworthy and does better work for a better price than the highly polished franchises.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I've noticed good trades people always take pictures of their work. I'm now wondering if it's worth asking to see images of their recent jobs.
- 7y ago

bonniemuffin 7y ago

The guys who installed new tile in my shower put in a custom shower niche that incorporated an interesting tile pattern, and I was glad to notice them taking pictures of it when they were done. It was neat to see their pride in creating an elegant one-of-a-kind feature (in what was otherwise a fairly routine project).

lhuser123 7y ago
I sometimes wonder why it’s so difficult to find people like that.
- toohotatopic 7y ago
  Are you like that?
  - menacingly 7y ago
    I wasn't expecting to be philosophically blindsided by this thread

bitwize 7y ago

"I am a builder," the end user replied. "Many of the houses of this town were made under my chop." http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/end-user.html http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/end-user.html