6 ms·

Brad Porters response is really disappointing. It’s possible that he and his team are doing everything in their power but that Amazon completely fails it’s war

by tybit 6y ago

Brad Porters response is really disappointing. It’s possible that he and his team are doing everything in their power but that Amazon completely fails it’s warehouse workers nonetheless.

x0x0 6y ago
Hard to make someone see something they've gotten rich deliberately ignoring.
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Completely agree. I saw this on LinkedIn where some of my ex-colleagues gave it a bunch of "Well said!" platitudes (side note: comments on LinkedIn posts must be the largest collection on useless banal drivel that humanity has ever produced, and in a world of ubiquitous social media, that's saying a lot). It was so disappointing not because it was wrong - all of the points Brad made about Amazon going to great lengths to protect workers and rejigger processes rang true. But it missed the point and completely did not address at all Amazon's culture WRT responding to whistleblowers. Furthermore, all the other "yeah, that's right!" comments from other very highly paid white collar Amazonians (with barely a peep from Amazon's factory workers, though not unexpected given the medium) came across as extremely tone deaf and the equivalent of the aristocracy congratulating each other over how well they treat the servants.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I think the problem with LinkedIn is that it is exhibitionist by its very nature. Your audience is not just your co-workers, but potential employers, so most people say the things that are accepted within that group ( though it could be argued many groups are like that -- even HN to an extent ) and/or please prospective recruiters. I agree about one thing though. LinkedIn was the only place when I was straight up 'attacked' by random people, who did not agree with my opinion. All of a sudden, all my posts started talking about coke I do and whatnot. It was a weird experience for me, but I immediately stopped all actual conversations on LinkedIn based on that. The risks are not worth it.
ubermonkey 6y ago
Well, also, Upton Sinclair applies: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  You could apply the same quote to diminish Tim Bray's "sacrifice" as well. They can both feel they are doing the right thing and be at odds.
  - pwinnski 6y ago
    Bray sacrificed $1mm+, while Porter continues to collect his salary from Amazon. The quote definitely applies to Porter, and definitely not to Bray.
User23 6y ago
Tim strongly implied that Brad and every other VP leveled engineer is behaving morally unconscionably. It’s nice for Tim that he can afford to torpedo his job for a Democratic Socialists of America publicity stunt, but what other response do you expect from people like Brad? He is an ethical person who prefers to actually improve people’s lives by making real goods and services more affordable and accessible instead of this empty grandstanding.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  Seems you're getting steamrolled by the anti-amazon public opinion that's so popular these days, but I feel you are at least partially correct with the moral positioning. They can both feel they are working for good at the same time even from opposite sides without either being wrong. I'm not sure Tim is grandstanding, as much as suffering from the (IMO weak and easy to accuse) burden of campaigning for the little guy from a position of power. We shouldn't always require that change come from the bottom up or the very top; he can possibly ignite it far faster and meaingful than either.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- halostatue 6y ago
  Note: Tim Bray is Canadian. He’s not doing anything with this for anyone in America _qua America_, much less what you’re calling a “publicity stunt”. The affected workers he’s resigned in protest against the firing of may be in America, but this isn’t a publicity stunt.
FireBeyond 6y ago
It really is. Especially when there are constant radio ads here for warehouse workers which, I do not exaggerate: "Apply online. No interview required. Start tomorrow." That's the very definition of interchangeable pieces you're not overly concerned with. "Can you pass a literacy test? Background check? Have a pulse? Start tomorrow" shows absolutely no deep abiding connection.
davidwitt415 6y ago
To me, Brad Porter responded like an engineer, that is, his total focus was on technology and process (valuable, to be sure), but had no human focus. Tim, otoh, did, and that is what struck a chord.

by tybit 6y ago

Brad Porters response is really disappointing. It’s possible that he and his team are doing everything in their power but that Amazon completely fails it’s warehouse workers nonetheless.

x0x0 6y ago

Hard to make someone see something they've gotten rich deliberately ignoring.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

Completely agree. I saw this on LinkedIn where some of my ex-colleagues gave it a bunch of "Well said!" platitudes (side note: comments on LinkedIn posts must be the largest collection on useless banal drivel that humanity has ever produced, and in a world of ubiquitous social media, that's saying a lot). It was so disappointing not because it was wrong - all of the points Brad made about Amazon going to great lengths to protect workers and rejigger processes rang true. But it missed the point and completely did not address at all Amazon's culture WRT responding to whistleblowers. Furthermore, all the other "yeah, that's right!" comments from other very highly paid white collar Amazonians (with barely a peep from Amazon's factory workers, though not unexpected given the medium) came across as extremely tone deaf and the equivalent of the aristocracy congratulating each other over how well they treat the servants.

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I think the problem with LinkedIn is that it is exhibitionist by its very nature. Your audience is not just your co-workers, but potential employers, so most people say the things that are accepted within that group ( though it could be argued many groups are like that -- even HN to an extent ) and/or please prospective recruiters. I agree about one thing though. LinkedIn was the only place when I was straight up 'attacked' by random people, who did not agree with my opinion. All of a sudden, all my posts started talking about coke I do and whatnot. It was a weird experience for me, but I immediately stopped all actual conversations on LinkedIn based on that. The risks are not worth it.

ubermonkey 6y ago

Well, also, Upton Sinclair applies: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

nogabebop23 6y ago
You could apply the same quote to diminish Tim Bray's "sacrifice" as well. They can both feel they are doing the right thing and be at odds.
- pwinnski 6y ago
  Bray sacrificed $1mm+, while Porter continues to collect his salary from Amazon. The quote definitely applies to Porter, and definitely not to Bray.

User23 6y ago

Tim strongly implied that Brad and every other VP leveled engineer is behaving morally unconscionably. It’s nice for Tim that he can afford to torpedo his job for a Democratic Socialists of America publicity stunt, but what other response do you expect from people like Brad? He is an ethical person who prefers to actually improve people’s lives by making real goods and services more affordable and accessible instead of this empty grandstanding.

nogabebop23 6y ago
Seems you're getting steamrolled by the anti-amazon public opinion that's so popular these days, but I feel you are at least partially correct with the moral positioning. They can both feel they are working for good at the same time even from opposite sides without either being wrong. I'm not sure Tim is grandstanding, as much as suffering from the (IMO weak and easy to accuse) burden of campaigning for the little guy from a position of power. We shouldn't always require that change come from the bottom up or the very top; he can possibly ignite it far faster and meaingful than either.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
halostatue 6y ago
Note: Tim Bray is Canadian. He’s not doing anything with this for anyone in America _qua America_, much less what you’re calling a “publicity stunt”. The affected workers he’s resigned in protest against the firing of may be in America, but this isn’t a publicity stunt.

FireBeyond 6y ago

It really is. Especially when there are constant radio ads here for warehouse workers which, I do not exaggerate: "Apply online. No interview required. Start tomorrow." That's the very definition of interchangeable pieces you're not overly concerned with. "Can you pass a literacy test? Background check? Have a pulse? Start tomorrow" shows absolutely no deep abiding connection.

davidwitt415 6y ago

To me, Brad Porter responded like an engineer, that is, his total focus was on technology and process (valuable, to be sure), but had no human focus. Tim, otoh, did, and that is what struck a chord.