4 ms·

I would liked to have read their opinions on Sweden.

lucideer 7y ago
Do you live in Sweden? A lot of people seem to be using it as some example of a country who haven't introduced lockdown measures, whereas in reality they are actually self-isolating and social distancing, just like everyone else. Worth noting also that Sweden has the 6th highest case fatality rate in Europe (other Nordic countries are near the bottom of that list).
- josefresco 7y ago
  I don't, but I've read enough to be aware of their approach which is to socially distance, protect the vulnerable but other than that, operate on a semi-normal basis. Kids go to school, adults go to work. Just wondering if they project Sweden to have any sort of "herd immunity" in the short/medium/long term timeframe.
  - irchans 7y ago
    I imagine that a large percentage (maybe 10%, maybe more) of the children in Sweden have been infected because they have more daily contacts and they "work" in crowded rooms. I am thinking that the kids could achieve herd immunity with very few deaths. Of course, any old person living with kids would have a large chance of dying (maybe more than 5% if over 70).
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
      There aren't a whole lot of multigenerational households in Sweden. Of course, grandparents do spend time with their grandchildren, but rarely 24/7.
- jahaja 7y ago
  > Worth noting also that Sweden has the 6th highest case fatality rate in Europe (other Nordic countries are near the bottom of that list). It's very hard to make any proper comparisons of numbers before this has run its course. What if Sweden doesn't have a second wave but other countries do?
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Yes, I suspect this debate will be going on for years.
- brutusmcforce 7y ago
  Yeah, I'm swedish and we are very much self-isolating. We didn't close schools, our idiot state epidemiologist didn't think nursing staff should use masks etc. so lots of elderly got infected. Stockholm infection numbers are insane, and we are probably getting there up north soon too. Lots of small businesses are defaulting. I'm trying to support my local restaurant by eating lunch there every day. All in all, it's a mess.
  - throwlaplace 7y ago
    One could even say the swedish are experiencing stockholm syndrome right now...
  - orblivion 7y ago
    Did they close bars and indoor dining?
    - brutusmcforce 7y ago
      Gatherings over 50 persons are prohibited, many bars and restaurants have went bankrupt though so I guess it's self-regulating.
btmorex 7y ago
I feel like Sweden's approach is a red herring. Everything I've read suggests that life in Sweden right now is very similar to other countries with more restrictive lockdowns. Like restaurants/shops haven't been forced to close, but many have closed anyway because business is down 80-90%. And they're definitely not going to get to herd immunity any time soon. The percentage of people exposed to SARS-CoV-2 in Stockholm is only slightly higher than New York City.
joubert 7y ago
Some info that I hope can help inform: * C19 deaths per million people (Sweden vs. Others, but you can configure for your favorite jurisdiction) - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&year=2020-05-08&country=OWID_WRL+SWE+USA+ZAF+NOR+NLD+DEU+GBR+CAN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-mi... * Architect of Sweden's no-lockdown strategy insists it will pay off - https://www.ft.com/content/a2b4c18c-a5e8-4edc-8047-ade4a82a548d https://www.ft.com/content/a2b4c18c-a5e8-4edc-8047-ade4a82a5... (I disagree that intentionally sacrificing people like this is the moral thing to do)
- CubsFan1060 7y ago
  If the approach is accurate,then the deaths per million should even out over time (barring effective treatment discovery or a vaccine being approved earlier than thought). As I understand it (which is poorly), they are front-loading the deaths instead of a lockdown. I won't touch on the moral side of things. Edit: Replaced "correct" with "accurate". Can't come up with quite the right word there.

Do you live in Sweden? A lot of people seem to be using it as some example of a country who haven't introduced lockdown measures, whereas in reality they are actually self-isolating and social distancing, just like everyone else. Worth noting also that Sweden has the 6th highest case fatality rate in Europe (other Nordic countries are near the bottom of that list).

josefresco 7y ago
I don't, but I've read enough to be aware of their approach which is to socially distance, protect the vulnerable but other than that, operate on a semi-normal basis. Kids go to school, adults go to work. Just wondering if they project Sweden to have any sort of "herd immunity" in the short/medium/long term timeframe.
- irchans 7y ago
  I imagine that a large percentage (maybe 10%, maybe more) of the children in Sweden have been infected because they have more daily contacts and they "work" in crowded rooms. I am thinking that the kids could achieve herd immunity with very few deaths. Of course, any old person living with kids would have a large chance of dying (maybe more than 5% if over 70).
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    There aren't a whole lot of multigenerational households in Sweden. Of course, grandparents do spend time with their grandchildren, but rarely 24/7.
jahaja 7y ago
> Worth noting also that Sweden has the 6th highest case fatality rate in Europe (other Nordic countries are near the bottom of that list). It's very hard to make any proper comparisons of numbers before this has run its course. What if Sweden doesn't have a second wave but other countries do?
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  Yes, I suspect this debate will be going on for years.
brutusmcforce 7y ago
Yeah, I'm swedish and we are very much self-isolating. We didn't close schools, our idiot state epidemiologist didn't think nursing staff should use masks etc. so lots of elderly got infected. Stockholm infection numbers are insane, and we are probably getting there up north soon too. Lots of small businesses are defaulting. I'm trying to support my local restaurant by eating lunch there every day. All in all, it's a mess.
- throwlaplace 7y ago
  One could even say the swedish are experiencing stockholm syndrome right now...
- orblivion 7y ago
  Did they close bars and indoor dining?
  - brutusmcforce 7y ago
    Gatherings over 50 persons are prohibited, many bars and restaurants have went bankrupt though so I guess it's self-regulating.

btmorex 7y ago

I feel like Sweden's approach is a red herring. Everything I've read suggests that life in Sweden right now is very similar to other countries with more restrictive lockdowns. Like restaurants/shops haven't been forced to close, but many have closed anyway because business is down 80-90%. And they're definitely not going to get to herd immunity any time soon. The percentage of people exposed to SARS-CoV-2 in Stockholm is only slightly higher than New York City.

joubert 7y ago

Some info that I hope can help inform: * C19 deaths per million people (Sweden vs. Others, but you can configure for your favorite jurisdiction) - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&year=2020-05-08&country=OWID_WRL+SWE+USA+ZAF+NOR+NLD+DEU+GBR+CAN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-mi... * Architect of Sweden's no-lockdown strategy insists it will pay off - https://www.ft.com/content/a2b4c18c-a5e8-4edc-8047-ade4a82a548d https://www.ft.com/content/a2b4c18c-a5e8-4edc-8047-ade4a82a5... (I disagree that intentionally sacrificing people like this is the moral thing to do)

CubsFan1060 7y ago
If the approach is accurate,then the deaths per million should even out over time (barring effective treatment discovery or a vaccine being approved earlier than thought). As I understand it (which is poorly), they are front-loading the deaths instead of a lockdown. I won't touch on the moral side of things. Edit: Replaced "correct" with "accurate". Can't come up with quite the right word there.