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You don't think censorship is a big deal? That's exactly the reason why their government gets away with it, because people see it as no big deal.
by woutr_be 6y ago
You don't think censorship is a big deal? That's exactly the reason why their government gets away with it, because people see it as no big deal.
- balola 6y agoIf what the gov is doing (ostensibly) makes them rich, e.g. they can afford cars and condo prices double every few years, them yes, the majority of people doesn't care.
- rorykoehler 6y agoYou can have those things without the oppression. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
- taneq 6y agoI don't think anyone's saying oppression is necessary, merely that bread and circuses have always been enough to placate the masses. Nobody revolts on a full stomach.
- benliong78 6y agoYou're right that correlation does not equal causation, but it doesn't have to be for those folks to not care. Having lived in Singapore, Hong Kong (current) and China, I can tell you that in Singapore's case, folks are aware that they live under a semi-dictatorship, that their government controls all media (radio, tv, everything is state-owned). But they always say "but I guess the government is doing a good job". One has nothing to do with the other. The government can do a good job without the dictatorship, but it's the way folks rationalize their helplessness, their sense of lack of control over their fate. This is also why we in Hong Kong ARE fighting against these kind of controls, probably in vein, but I for one do NOT want to resign in rationalizing for the government's over-control without a fight.
- rorykoehler 6y agoI've lived in Singapore too. Its mighty oppressive in that I found myself self-censoring on occasion but you can't compare it to the dystopia China has become.
- hutzlibu 6y ago"compare it to the dystopia China has become." Just out of curiosity, what times are you referring to, when china became dystopian?
- rorykoehler 6y agoIf you have to ask you haven't been paying attention
- hutzlibu 6y agoSo ... apparently you mean the recent events? Well, have you ever heard of the tiananmen place? Or ... the "cultural revolution" from Mao himself? Or the cleansing events after the revolution? Or, ... before the red revolution, years of bloody civil war, with ruthless warlords taxing even dying of their underlings, or general things in old china like child towers outside of town, where the unwanted babys were thrown to die, so their souls did not haunt the houses of the living? In other words, you have been sleeping before(or did not bother with china at all), if you only consider the current events the strong ones, that qualify for dystopia.
- rorykoehler 6y agoI know enough about China's history but am by no means an expert. All I can say regarding your examples is that, yes they are very disturbing, however technology has changed the game considerably. Perhaps techno-dystopia would have been a more accurate characterisation.
- devit 6y agoYeah, is there any information on why the Chinese government feels like they need the censorship? As far as I can tell they are the most successful government at least in modern history in terms of increasing living standards (huge GDP growth and even things like being the only country to successfully almost eradicate SARS-CoV-2), so it seems they would keep power even in a fully functioning democracy with no censorship since they are so good. Then maybe the censorship is actually integral to their success as it reduces the time wasted on going in directions different from the government's one and possibly boosts morale and happiness?
- Leary 6y agoThey conducted an extensive historical study of what happened to the Soviet Union and decided to avoid that.
- Eizieizz 6y agoBullshit! Taiwan started in the same state as the PRC communist dictatorship and they have progressed much more economically than China, their GDP is much higher. Also culturally and from a human rights perspective Taiwan blows the chicoms out of the water. Taiwan shows what China could have been if they would not have been taken hostage by the communist chinazis.
- Paianni 6y agoIt took them forty years to deliver the democracy the 1947 constitution provisioned.
- woutr_be 6y agoLook, I've spoken to this to my friends in China about this before, and I can understand that to them it's okay, they've seen their lives improve over the past 10 years. And I understand why they feel that way, they've never known anything else. But anyone coming from the Western world, and agreeing with what their government is doing in terms of censorship, that I can't understand.
- roenxi 6y agoChina has a long cultural history of being relatively more wealthy than everyone else. But in absolute terms though they've just had a huge amount of technological progress dropped on them. Something like 3+ generations in of progress in Europe compressed into a fraction of a generation in China. And they look like they are regaining their traditional place as a world leading power. India will eventually show them eventually up as having an inferior political model but on balance I can see how an evidence-based person would conclude that China's government is working well, on the basis that it presided over the fastest leap forward in living standards in human history. I'd still rather live in Europe, India or America though.
- coldtea 6y ago>India will eventually show them eventually up as having an inferior political model but on balance I doubt it. If anything India's system is less effective, equally or more corrupt, and downright barbarous in some social aspects (e.g. castes). Plus the rampant inequality which is much worse than China.
- 101404 6y agoDemocracy and rule of law usually start to have an advantage over authoritarianism when you surpass an annual GDP per capita of about 5000 USD. So, on the long term, I am optimistic that India will catch up. Especially now that the USA is moving away from China as "work bench". I hope we here in Europe will follow that policy, too. It just makes much more sense to support an emerging democracy than to support a facist regime.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- RaceWon 6y ago> That's exactly the reason why their government gets away with it So it's not the death camps then? Hmmmm... I must say that I remain totally skeptical as to your assertion.
- woutr_be 6y agoYou can list any number of things, but we were talking about censorship, so I don’t see the need to throw another subject into the mix.
- tempestn 6y agoI think your parent is arguing that they use the threat of the camps to back up their censorship.
- RaceWon 6y ago> I think your parent is arguing that they use the threat of the camps to back up their censorship I am indeed. But of course your use of the term "threat" might imply to some readers that it is not a reality for those poor souls... I would substitute "hellish reality".
- woutr_be 6y agoThanks for clarifying, but I still don't think this is relevant to the current discussion. This is probably another discussion as to why people allow censorship, one reason could be the punishment, but there are probably many other reasons.
- yyhhsj0521 6y agoNot a big deal in terms of having been normalized. Ofc it's bad.
- hiram112 6y agoBut muh private companies... WeChat is owned by the 'private company' Tencent. And most here think it's perfectly valid when Facebook or Google censor things they don't like. I'm sure you think that Google is a real private company, while Tencent is not. But the difference isn't really all that valid anymore; the US government has backdoors and special access to our tech behemoths, just like the Chinese do for their tech companies. Maybe it's not such a good idea to cheer for Google, Facebook, and the other companies when they censor whatever it is you currently dislike politically. Do you naively believe they'll not someday censor you, too?
- mads 6y agoI dont believe anyone here is cheering much for any companies based in the advertising capital of the world.