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I have some karma to burn, so here it goes: Be shitty to people and they will turn their back to you. I am ashamed to admit it, but I am happy to see companie

I have some karma to burn, so here it goes: Be shitty to people and they will turn their back to you. I am ashamed to admit it, but I am happy to see companies that embrace being shitty to users, fall like a house of cards. Yes, SO embraced being shitty to users and creating a toxic environment for far too long, despite their latest weak attempts to fix it. I hope eBay, Paypal and Yelp are next. Also somewhat Reddit. They are ok for consuming data, but if you try to post anything it's pretty user hostile.

goatherders 6y ago
What are you talking about?
- Karunamon 6y ago
  If I had to guess, Stack*'s opaque moderation and user hostility.
- shadycuz 6y ago
  Most likely this https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-...
abiogenesis 6y ago
Agreed. I have been an active SO user for years, but I significantly reduced my contribution after the latest screwups and their attempts to fix it with corporate/legal speak.
all_blue_chucks 6y ago
You think mean comments are a SO or reddit problem? The fact that anonymous online discourse gets rude and heated has been known since the days of usenet. There was even some of this on BBS forums, but that was a more civilized time, likely because we knew the people we were talking to were within our local calling area in most cases. None of this is new. It's a humanity problem, not a technology problem.
- sampo 6y ago
  > You think mean comments are a SO or reddit problem? No. They mean a hostile attitude form the company towards the users and the volunteer moderators.
- unishark 6y ago
  > None of this is new. It's a humanity problem, not a technology problem. When you put it that way though, maybe technology can address it by somehow humanizing the communication more. I bet people are researching ways to do this.
  - MauranKilom 6y ago
    FWIW, StackOverflow have (as mentioned in the blog post) deployed a machine learning system for detecting unfriendly comments.
- z3t4 6y ago
  It's a community problem. And more specifically a growth problem, when a community grow too fast it's hard to educate all new members about the community policies. Once those new members get moderator status without first being educated, the community is doomed.
  - all_blue_chucks 6y ago
    If you think it's possible to "educate" everyone participating in an anonymous online discussion you have failed before you even began.
johnvanommen 6y ago
> I hope eBay, Paypal and Yelp are next. For ten years I sold things on eBay about 5-6 times a year. It wasn't a business at all. Basically if I had an old phone or a laptop, I'd put it on eBay and get a few bucks for it. Around 2008 or so, I noticed that eBay's policies had shifted, so that sellers were at the mercy of the buyers. My last straw was when I sold a phone to someone. I'd paid $500 for the phone. I'd used it for a year. I sold it on eBay for $40. I'd spent $15 on shipping. If everything went lick clockwork, I'd make $20 for the sale, which was peanuts since I'd spent 2-3 hours posting the ad and shipping the phone. The person who bought the phone couldn't figure out how to turn the phone on. I got their email, and I responded to their complaint in exactly nine minutes. In the span of nine minutes, they raged out, and clicked some button on eBay to complain about me. Like, I get it, if I ignore your email for a week, that's not cool. I responded to them in nine minutes. Their complaint resulted in my perfect eBay score being lowered, and they got a refund. Stuff like that just completely burned me out on eBay. They only seem to be interested in maximizing the number of customers on their platform and don't seem to care about keeping their sellers happy. And without sellers, eBay wouldn't exist.
- 411111111111111 6y ago
  about 10 yrs ago, i went through my old tech and thought to myself: maybe somebody can still use any of this stuff? things like a joystick, old ddr-ram for the first gen iMac and similar. i expected to make no money from it at all, basically just wanted to give it away. people did bid on it, so i thought to myself: nice, i don't have to feel bad about throwing working tech in the bin... well, after the second article with retarded complaints about shipping (i used old packaging from amazon deliveries iirc) i just thought to myself: screw this! I cancelled all other pending auctions and threw them away. Just not worth the effort. especially if you're only doing it for moral reasons.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > I noticed that eBay's policies had shifted, so that sellers were at the mercy of the buyers. I listed an old video card with something like "FOR PARTS" in the title but accidentally tagged it as used. The buyer complained, I said the title and verbal description clearly said it's broken and for parts. eBay ruled in the buyer's favor. Admittedly, it's awkward because I had a listing mistake, and the buyer probably thought they found a deal (the card was half the price of a working one) and didn't read, so we were both in the wrong, I guess, but the buyer and eBay didn't see it that way. I wish I could really quit eBay, but instead my threshold for something being worth my trouble is now about $60.
blast 6y ago
This seems like overinterpretation. I don't disagree with your feelings but we don't know to what extent this was a factor and it's hardly as if SO is shutting down.

goatherders 6y ago

What are you talking about?

Karunamon 6y ago
If I had to guess, Stack*'s opaque moderation and user hostility.
shadycuz 6y ago
Most likely this https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-and-forced-relicensing-is-stack-exchange-still-interested-in-cooper https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333965/firing-mods-...

abiogenesis 6y ago

Agreed. I have been an active SO user for years, but I significantly reduced my contribution after the latest screwups and their attempts to fix it with corporate/legal speak.

all_blue_chucks 6y ago

You think mean comments are a SO or reddit problem? The fact that anonymous online discourse gets rude and heated has been known since the days of usenet. There was even some of this on BBS forums, but that was a more civilized time, likely because we knew the people we were talking to were within our local calling area in most cases. None of this is new. It's a humanity problem, not a technology problem.

sampo 6y ago
> You think mean comments are a SO or reddit problem? No. They mean a hostile attitude form the company towards the users and the volunteer moderators.
unishark 6y ago
> None of this is new. It's a humanity problem, not a technology problem. When you put it that way though, maybe technology can address it by somehow humanizing the communication more. I bet people are researching ways to do this.
- MauranKilom 6y ago
  FWIW, StackOverflow have (as mentioned in the blog post) deployed a machine learning system for detecting unfriendly comments.
z3t4 6y ago
It's a community problem. And more specifically a growth problem, when a community grow too fast it's hard to educate all new members about the community policies. Once those new members get moderator status without first being educated, the community is doomed.
- all_blue_chucks 6y ago
  If you think it's possible to "educate" everyone participating in an anonymous online discussion you have failed before you even began.

johnvanommen 6y ago

> I hope eBay, Paypal and Yelp are next. For ten years I sold things on eBay about 5-6 times a year. It wasn't a business at all. Basically if I had an old phone or a laptop, I'd put it on eBay and get a few bucks for it. Around 2008 or so, I noticed that eBay's policies had shifted, so that sellers were at the mercy of the buyers. My last straw was when I sold a phone to someone. I'd paid $500 for the phone. I'd used it for a year. I sold it on eBay for $40. I'd spent $15 on shipping. If everything went lick clockwork, I'd make $20 for the sale, which was peanuts since I'd spent 2-3 hours posting the ad and shipping the phone. The person who bought the phone couldn't figure out how to turn the phone on. I got their email, and I responded to their complaint in exactly nine minutes. In the span of nine minutes, they raged out, and clicked some button on eBay to complain about me. Like, I get it, if I ignore your email for a week, that's not cool. I responded to them in nine minutes. Their complaint resulted in my perfect eBay score being lowered, and they got a refund. Stuff like that just completely burned me out on eBay. They only seem to be interested in maximizing the number of customers on their platform and don't seem to care about keeping their sellers happy. And without sellers, eBay wouldn't exist.

411111111111111 6y ago
about 10 yrs ago, i went through my old tech and thought to myself: maybe somebody can still use any of this stuff? things like a joystick, old ddr-ram for the first gen iMac and similar. i expected to make no money from it at all, basically just wanted to give it away. people did bid on it, so i thought to myself: nice, i don't have to feel bad about throwing working tech in the bin... well, after the second article with retarded complaints about shipping (i used old packaging from amazon deliveries iirc) i just thought to myself: screw this! I cancelled all other pending auctions and threw them away. Just not worth the effort. especially if you're only doing it for moral reasons.
dehrmann 6y ago
> I noticed that eBay's policies had shifted, so that sellers were at the mercy of the buyers. I listed an old video card with something like "FOR PARTS" in the title but accidentally tagged it as used. The buyer complained, I said the title and verbal description clearly said it's broken and for parts. eBay ruled in the buyer's favor. Admittedly, it's awkward because I had a listing mistake, and the buyer probably thought they found a deal (the card was half the price of a working one) and didn't read, so we were both in the wrong, I guess, but the buyer and eBay didn't see it that way. I wish I could really quit eBay, but instead my threshold for something being worth my trouble is now about $60.

blast 6y ago

This seems like overinterpretation. I don't disagree with your feelings but we don't know to what extent this was a factor and it's hardly as if SO is shutting down.