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> But the key question is -- do you live in or have any connection to China? If not, then I would go with the CCP surveillance because there is no obvious mecha

by Cyph0n 6y ago

> But the key question is -- do you live in or have any connection to China? If not, then I would go with the CCP surveillance because there is no obvious mechanism for such surveillance to harm you directly. Tell that to the forcibly disappeared political dissidents, or to the Uyghurs who are being "re-educated" as we speak. And remember, even if you're not connected to China now, that can always change in the future.

cyphar 6y ago
I'm not sure I see where we're disagreeing. Yes, if you have a connection to China then you should opt to evade CCP surveillance and there are many CCP policies which are awful towards groups in China. That's what I said. My point is that if you have a connection to the US (as all 5-EYES and allied countries do), then today that has a more direct impact on your life than any theoretical future risk that the CCP will be able to have a direct impact over your life. The premise of this discussion is that you have to choose one or the other. I am well aware of the massive threat that is retroactive surveillance, which is why I would choose neither (obviously). > Tell that to the forcibly disappeared political dissidents, or to the Uyghurs who are being "re-educated" as we speak. Those are all people who have direct connections to China in some respect, and what has been done to them are all horrific human rights abuses. However, I don't see what that has to do with what I said.
- Cyph0n 6y ago
  If you only consider the direct, personal impact on you as an individual with no current or future ties to China, then sure, the risk is probably lower. However, it is important to note that CCP surveillance is much more intrusive in general. The point I'm trying to make is that you're not taking into account the fact that your use of CCP-backed services implicitly contributes to human rights and surveillance abuses within China. Once you consider this, I think minimizing the use of these products and services is worth incurring the added "risk" of being surveilled by the Five Eyes.
throw37543 6y ago
US military uses meta data for drone strikes, > In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

by Cyph0n 6y ago

cyphar 6y ago

I'm not sure I see where we're disagreeing. Yes, if you have a connection to China then you should opt to evade CCP surveillance and there are many CCP policies which are awful towards groups in China. That's what I said. My point is that if you have a connection to the US (as all 5-EYES and allied countries do), then today that has a more direct impact on your life than any theoretical future risk that the CCP will be able to have a direct impact over your life. The premise of this discussion is that you have to choose one or the other. I am well aware of the massive threat that is retroactive surveillance, which is why I would choose neither (obviously). > Tell that to the forcibly disappeared political dissidents, or to the Uyghurs who are being "re-educated" as we speak. Those are all people who have direct connections to China in some respect, and what has been done to them are all horrific human rights abuses. However, I don't see what that has to do with what I said.

Cyph0n 6y ago
If you only consider the direct, personal impact on you as an individual with no current or future ties to China, then sure, the risk is probably lower. However, it is important to note that CCP surveillance is much more intrusive in general. The point I'm trying to make is that you're not taking into account the fact that your use of CCP-backed services implicitly contributes to human rights and surveillance abuses within China. Once you consider this, I think minimizing the use of these products and services is worth incurring the added "risk" of being surveilled by the Five Eyes.

throw37543 6y ago

US military uses meta data for drone strikes, > In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...