5 ms·

PHP is fine too. Check out https://laravel.com/ https://laravel.com/ and tell me that doesn't look like a joy to work with.

franga2000 6y ago
I just got roped into a project with the promise of Django, but the project lead ended up deciding to go with Laravel, so I've been looking into it for a few days. It's a resounding no from me. If you're stuck with PHP, sure, this beats the WordPress style of...well...I can't really find words to describe how bad it is..., but it's still miles behind anything else. It full of strings and other things that you just have to memorize with IDE integration even with specialised extensions still worse than other languages with standard IDEs.
- zippoxer 6y ago
  "String-programming" is mostly optional. Modern Laravel is introducing type-safe alternatives. For instance, instead of doing validation like: 'gender' => 'in:male,female,other' You can now do: 'gender' => Rule::in(['male', 'female', 'other']) Which, coming from Go, I very much prefer. Modern PHP is pushing for type-safety (via type-hinting) and Laravel is following this direction as well.
phreack 6y ago
How much of the old "A fractal of bad design" post would you say still applies? That one post showcased so many footguns right at the language level that it spooked me away from it forever.
- neurostimulant 6y ago
  A lot of those are still applies, but these days you can ignore those bad parts and only use the new good parts just like how you would use javascript. Still, I only use php occasionally but I wish it's not as eager in treating string as number in many cases.
- smacktoward 6y ago
  You can get a good sense for what "modern PHP" looks like by browsing through PHP The Right Way (https://phptherightway.com/ https://phptherightway.com/). PHP has grown up a lot over the last ten years.
- RicardoLuis0 6y ago
  if you have an hour to spare, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZ5TJCBWMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZ5TJCBWMg) is a great talk by Rasmus Lerdorf, the creator of PHP, on the design of the language, the reason it ended up the way it did, and the ways that it is evolving for the better.
bschwindHN 6y ago
I took a look, doesn't seem like a joy to me. It's too stringly-typed for my tastes, seems like a lot of errors you can make will only be caught at runtime.
pjmlp 6y ago
And it has JIT support out of the box, while PyPy still needs to fight for adoption.

franga2000 6y ago

I just got roped into a project with the promise of Django, but the project lead ended up deciding to go with Laravel, so I've been looking into it for a few days. It's a resounding no from me. If you're stuck with PHP, sure, this beats the WordPress style of...well...I can't really find words to describe how bad it is..., but it's still miles behind anything else. It full of strings and other things that you just have to memorize with IDE integration even with specialised extensions still worse than other languages with standard IDEs.

zippoxer 6y ago
"String-programming" is mostly optional. Modern Laravel is introducing type-safe alternatives. For instance, instead of doing validation like: 'gender' => 'in:male,female,other' You can now do: 'gender' => Rule::in(['male', 'female', 'other']) Which, coming from Go, I very much prefer. Modern PHP is pushing for type-safety (via type-hinting) and Laravel is following this direction as well.

phreack 6y ago

How much of the old "A fractal of bad design" post would you say still applies? That one post showcased so many footguns right at the language level that it spooked me away from it forever.

neurostimulant 6y ago
A lot of those are still applies, but these days you can ignore those bad parts and only use the new good parts just like how you would use javascript. Still, I only use php occasionally but I wish it's not as eager in treating string as number in many cases.
smacktoward 6y ago
You can get a good sense for what "modern PHP" looks like by browsing through PHP The Right Way (https://phptherightway.com/ https://phptherightway.com/). PHP has grown up a lot over the last ten years.
RicardoLuis0 6y ago
if you have an hour to spare, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZ5TJCBWMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZ5TJCBWMg) is a great talk by Rasmus Lerdorf, the creator of PHP, on the design of the language, the reason it ended up the way it did, and the ways that it is evolving for the better.

bschwindHN 6y ago

I took a look, doesn't seem like a joy to me. It's too stringly-typed for my tastes, seems like a lot of errors you can make will only be caught at runtime.

pjmlp 6y ago

And it has JIT support out of the box, while PyPy still needs to fight for adoption.