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'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple; it's got a significantly-smaller barrier to entry than Emacs, and breaks fewer c

by kick 6y ago

'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple; it's got a significantly-smaller barrier to entry than Emacs, and breaks fewer core-assumptions. Is that agreeable to you? The thread on the mailing list was basically guesses as to why Emacs has lost popularity & methods of regaining it, and the lwn article is primarily focused on just relaying it. The thread itself doesn't point to all that much dysfunction, in my opinion.

kgwgk 6y ago
> 'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple If that means that you can press letters in they keyboard and see them appear in the screen that’s also true in Emacs... and you don’t even have to press ‘i’ for things to start working as expected.
- kick 6y ago
  Emacs breaks assumptions of the operating system; vi does not.
  - fhennig 6y ago
    What does that mean? In vi if I press "i" I can't use the arrow keys to navigate the text as normal. In emacs I can. I'd say using the arrow keys for navigation in text fields is a very widely accepted functionality. So isn't it vi breaking the expected behavior here?
pvg 6y ago
'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple; it's got a significantly-smaller barrier to entry than Emacs, and breaks fewer core-assumptions. Is that agreeable to you? It's not. Maybe we're talking about completely different things because I'm not following this at all, just like the other responder downthread. For decades, GUI text entry has been modeless. Larry Tessler one of the GUI's pioneers and prophets (PBUH) had a 'NO MODES' license plate and the idea remains a central theme in UI design. Vi doesn't do that. It does this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Modes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Modes I don't mean to debate the merits of this design but in terms of 'breaking core assumptions, vi 'breaks the core assumption' of typing text into a computer. It's not, per Winnfield, the same ball park, same league or even the same sport.

by kick 6y ago

'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple; it's got a significantly-smaller barrier to entry than Emacs, and breaks fewer core-assumptions. Is that agreeable to you? The thread on the mailing list was basically guesses as to why Emacs has lost popularity & methods of regaining it, and the lwn article is primarily focused on just relaying it. The thread itself doesn't point to all that much dysfunction, in my opinion.

kgwgk 6y ago

> 'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple If that means that you can press letters in they keyboard and see them appear in the screen that’s also true in Emacs... and you don’t even have to press ‘i’ for things to start working as expected.

kick 6y ago
Emacs breaks assumptions of the operating system; vi does not.
- fhennig 6y ago
  What does that mean? In vi if I press "i" I can't use the arrow keys to navigate the text as normal. In emacs I can. I'd say using the arrow keys for navigation in text fields is a very widely accepted functionality. So isn't it vi breaking the expected behavior here?

pvg 6y ago

'press i and then basically everything works as you'd expect' is pretty simple; it's got a significantly-smaller barrier to entry than Emacs, and breaks fewer core-assumptions. Is that agreeable to you? It's not. Maybe we're talking about completely different things because I'm not following this at all, just like the other responder downthread. For decades, GUI text entry has been modeless. Larry Tessler one of the GUI's pioneers and prophets (PBUH) had a 'NO MODES' license plate and the idea remains a central theme in UI design. Vi doesn't do that. It does this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Modes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Modes I don't mean to debate the merits of this design but in terms of 'breaking core assumptions, vi 'breaks the core assumption' of typing text into a computer. It's not, per Winnfield, the same ball park, same league or even the same sport.