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Do you genuinely think if FAANG software engineers were to unionize, those companies would out of business with their huge cash reserves, or move to Mexico or o

Do you genuinely think if FAANG software engineers were to unionize, those companies would out of business with their huge cash reserves, or move to Mexico or outsource to Bangladesh?

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
Half of those companies are monopolies or close enough. But they also already provide very generous compensation, so what would you expect a union to negotiate for? You would also run the risk in that case not that they outsource to Bangladesh but that they outsource to Europe, if the union started demanding things they didn't want to give. Or just let the union walk out and hire different workers. That's the other reason unions don't really work outside of monopolies. If the company needs 100,000 workers and only 200,000 workers with that skillset exist in the world and the other 100,000 work for a competitor, you need the workers you already have. If the company needs 10,000 workers and a million workers with that skillset exist in the world, they can let you walk and hire other people. And in this case it's a real monopoly, not the soft stuff like Google and Facebook have -- Google doesn't have a lot of competition for search, but a random engineer from Facebook or Apple or Microsoft could still do most of the work they need to do, and vice versa.
- acituan 6y ago
  > But they also already provide very generous compensation, so what would you expect a union to negotiate for? That assumes everything that is of consideration is already priced into compensation, which is not. Wasn’t it several years ago one of them had its workers a walkout against sexual harassment, forced arbitration, manager retaliation etc? > You would also run the risk in that case not that they outsource to Bangladesh but that they outsource to Europe They would be in for a nasty surprise as Europe is more unionized that US. > Or just let the union walk out and hire different workers That assumes software engineers are fungible, which is not as much as it appears (at least there is a high cost to “funge” them en masse). Going to your manager with a competitor’s job offer is not an uncommon way to get a raise or promotion.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > That assumes everything that is of consideration is already priced into compensation, which is not. Wasn’t it several years ago one of them had its workers a walkout against sexual harassment, forced arbitration, manager retaliation etc? That doesn't mean it's not priced in. Companies with conditions like that still need to attract employees somehow. When they get a reputation like that they either have to fix it or provide more of something else to compensate for it. Markets don't require unions to function. > They would be in for a nasty surprise as Europe is more unionized that US. That's why they don't do it now. If there were more unions in the US, that's no longer a relative disadvantage for the company, which then is a problem for the US workers who just lost their advantage and thereby their jobs. > That assumes software engineers are fungible, which is not as much as it appears (at least there is a high cost to “funge” them en masse). Going to your manager with a competitor’s job offer is not an uncommon way to get a raise or promotion. Replacing software engineers isn't free. There is a transition cost. But the transition cost isn't infinite, and it acts as a hard cap on what the union could get out of the company. And from it you immediately have to extract all the overhead costs the company has to incur in dealing with the union to begin with. Which are often difficult to predict ahead of time, so companies may choose to cut their losses immediately rather than risk even higher costs later.

Do you genuinely think if FAANG software engineers were to unionize, those companies would out of business with their huge cash reserves, or move to Mexico or outsource to Bangladesh?

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

Half of those companies are monopolies or close enough. But they also already provide very generous compensation, so what would you expect a union to negotiate for? You would also run the risk in that case not that they outsource to Bangladesh but that they outsource to Europe, if the union started demanding things they didn't want to give. Or just let the union walk out and hire different workers. That's the other reason unions don't really work outside of monopolies. If the company needs 100,000 workers and only 200,000 workers with that skillset exist in the world and the other 100,000 work for a competitor, you need the workers you already have. If the company needs 10,000 workers and a million workers with that skillset exist in the world, they can let you walk and hire other people. And in this case it's a real monopoly, not the soft stuff like Google and Facebook have -- Google doesn't have a lot of competition for search, but a random engineer from Facebook or Apple or Microsoft could still do most of the work they need to do, and vice versa.

acituan 6y ago
> But they also already provide very generous compensation, so what would you expect a union to negotiate for? That assumes everything that is of consideration is already priced into compensation, which is not. Wasn’t it several years ago one of them had its workers a walkout against sexual harassment, forced arbitration, manager retaliation etc? > You would also run the risk in that case not that they outsource to Bangladesh but that they outsource to Europe They would be in for a nasty surprise as Europe is more unionized that US. > Or just let the union walk out and hire different workers That assumes software engineers are fungible, which is not as much as it appears (at least there is a high cost to “funge” them en masse). Going to your manager with a competitor’s job offer is not an uncommon way to get a raise or promotion.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > That assumes everything that is of consideration is already priced into compensation, which is not. Wasn’t it several years ago one of them had its workers a walkout against sexual harassment, forced arbitration, manager retaliation etc? That doesn't mean it's not priced in. Companies with conditions like that still need to attract employees somehow. When they get a reputation like that they either have to fix it or provide more of something else to compensate for it. Markets don't require unions to function. > They would be in for a nasty surprise as Europe is more unionized that US. That's why they don't do it now. If there were more unions in the US, that's no longer a relative disadvantage for the company, which then is a problem for the US workers who just lost their advantage and thereby their jobs. > That assumes software engineers are fungible, which is not as much as it appears (at least there is a high cost to “funge” them en masse). Going to your manager with a competitor’s job offer is not an uncommon way to get a raise or promotion. Replacing software engineers isn't free. There is a transition cost. But the transition cost isn't infinite, and it acts as a hard cap on what the union could get out of the company. And from it you immediately have to extract all the overhead costs the company has to incur in dealing with the union to begin with. Which are often difficult to predict ahead of time, so companies may choose to cut their losses immediately rather than risk even higher costs later.