3 ms·

Such a breathtaking interview. The internet bit starts around 7min. > Bowie: I don't think we've even seen the tip of the iceberg. I think the potential of wha

by agency 6y ago

Such a breathtaking interview. The internet bit starts around 7min. > Bowie: I don't think we've even seen the tip of the iceberg. I think the potential of what the internet is going to do to society, both good and bad, is unimaginable. I think we're actually on the cusp of something exhilarating and terrifying. > Paxman: It's just a tool though, isn't it? > Bowie. No. No it's not. It's an alien life-form. It's just landed here.

xtiansimon 6y ago
That got me too! I immediately recalled a paper I found in one of the free NASA ebooks (see link below): --- Susan Blackmore. “Dangerous Memes; or, What the Pandorans Let Loose” (Cosmos & Culture p297) “This reveals the fundamental difference between all other theories of gene-culture coevolution and memetics: for the former the final arbiter is genetic advantage so that culture must always remain on its leash, even if the leash sometimes gets very loose; for memetics both genes and memes have replicator power and can drive change and creativity. For other theories, cultural traits are an aspect of the human phenotype, but for memetics they are living things in their own right. These include a vast range of memeplexes (coadapted complexes of memes) that are copied, stored, and propagated by their human hosts using a wide variety of adaptations. All these, according to Humphrey, “should be regarded as living structures, not just metaphorically but technically.” (Dawkins 1989, 192). Some survive predominantly because they are useful to their hosts (e.g., effective financial institutions, scientific theories, or useful technologies); others depend on fulfilling human desires and preferences (e.g., the arts, music, and literature); and still others are positively harmful, tricking their hosts into propagating them. We humans are selective imitation devices (Blackmore 2001); we try to select only the useful or valuable memes but are inevitably tricked by some of the rest.” (p. 302) --- There are a lot of interesting bits in there, but this one has that creepy invasion has already happened and the aliens are living among us vibe to it. I watched this Bowie interview before. I am of an age that I remember the 1990s and can recall how people talked about the internet's potential--always in terms of other previous technologies (really Jeremy Paxman, the telephone?). Right now, I'm wondering what Bowie was reading and who he was talking to that informed his beliefs about the cultural change the internet was going to effect. (I was not as good a reader in the 1990s as I am now, so I'm sure I was describing the internet by the same unhelpful metaphors). Did Bowie describe the internet as an alien life-form, because it's shocking/what we expect David-Ziggie Stardust-Bowie to say? Or, was his belief based-on, informed-by, his artistic practice (research), or ideology (his own personal experiences and world-view)? Of course the truth is likely a mix, but the bit which makes a difference--the bit that makes Bowie an informed speaker with lucid ideas and insight--would I expect be research (or surround yourself with people who are smarter than you). --- Sunday March 29, NASA's free history e-book collection (nasa.gov) (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22718489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22718489) And in the collection is this book, Cosmos & Culture: Cultural Evolution in a Cosmic Context Edited by Steven J. Dick and Mark L. Lupisella (2009?) (https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/hist_culture_cosmos_detail.html https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/hist_culture_cosmos_deta...)

by agency 6y ago

xtiansimon 6y ago

That got me too! I immediately recalled a paper I found in one of the free NASA ebooks (see link below): --- Susan Blackmore. “Dangerous Memes; or, What the Pandorans Let Loose” (Cosmos & Culture p297) “This reveals the fundamental difference between all other theories of gene-culture coevolution and memetics: for the former the final arbiter is genetic advantage so that culture must always remain on its leash, even if the leash sometimes gets very loose; for memetics both genes and memes have replicator power and can drive change and creativity. For other theories, cultural traits are an aspect of the human phenotype, but for memetics they are living things in their own right. These include a vast range of memeplexes (coadapted complexes of memes) that are copied, stored, and propagated by their human hosts using a wide variety of adaptations. All these, according to Humphrey, “should be regarded as living structures, not just metaphorically but technically.” (Dawkins 1989, 192). Some survive predominantly because they are useful to their hosts (e.g., effective financial institutions, scientific theories, or useful technologies); others depend on fulfilling human desires and preferences (e.g., the arts, music, and literature); and still others are positively harmful, tricking their hosts into propagating them. We humans are selective imitation devices (Blackmore 2001); we try to select only the useful or valuable memes but are inevitably tricked by some of the rest.” (p. 302) --- There are a lot of interesting bits in there, but this one has that creepy invasion has already happened and the aliens are living among us vibe to it. I watched this Bowie interview before. I am of an age that I remember the 1990s and can recall how people talked about the internet's potential--always in terms of other previous technologies (really Jeremy Paxman, the telephone?). Right now, I'm wondering what Bowie was reading and who he was talking to that informed his beliefs about the cultural change the internet was going to effect. (I was not as good a reader in the 1990s as I am now, so I'm sure I was describing the internet by the same unhelpful metaphors). Did Bowie describe the internet as an alien life-form, because it's shocking/what we expect David-Ziggie Stardust-Bowie to say? Or, was his belief based-on, informed-by, his artistic practice (research), or ideology (his own personal experiences and world-view)? Of course the truth is likely a mix, but the bit which makes a difference--the bit that makes Bowie an informed speaker with lucid ideas and insight--would I expect be research (or surround yourself with people who are smarter than you). --- Sunday March 29, NASA's free history e-book collection (nasa.gov) (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22718489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22718489) And in the collection is this book, Cosmos & Culture: Cultural Evolution in a Cosmic Context Edited by Steven J. Dick and Mark L. Lupisella (2009?) (https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/hist_culture_cosmos_detail.html https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/hist_culture_cosmos_deta...)