4 ms·

Middle class doesn’t shop at Neiman Marcus though.

by vl 6y ago

trey-jones 6y ago
I think the suggestion here is that they used to, until the American Middle Class was forcibly merged into the American Lower Middle Class.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  But they still didn't. I went into Neiman Marcus in Dallas in 1991, just to look around. I found a leather jacket, with red... I'm not even sure what to call it. Paint? It was a layer on top of the leather, not dye. It looked very tacky. And it was $1000. In 1991. Well, even in 1991, the middle class had a lot less expensive places to buy tacky-looking junk.
- freepor 6y ago
  No, Neiman Marcus has always been an upper crust store with extravagant Christmas catalogs.
bsder 6y ago
That wasn't always true. When I started interviewing out of grad school, I REALLY stretched to go buy a nice suit from Neiman-Marcus, a Valentino at $700 in 1995. The suit was gorgeous and the tailor at N-M did a beautiful job adjusting it to me. I could be considered, barely, middle-class--certainly the lower end at best. The suit absolutely paid for itself many times over--that's a different set of stories. That Valentino is now closer to $5,000. Inflation says that Valentino should be about $1,200. I suspect that even at $1,200 most students couldn't stretch for it today. So, is Neiman-Marcus to blame for going further upscale given that they probably can't make any money in the middle anymore?
- whatok 6y ago
  All I've taken away from this is Valentino is more expensive in 2020 than it should be. By nature of you even being physically close enough to a Neiman Marcus in 1995, chances are you were of higher income than the rest of the country. They're still located in mostly more wealthy areas of the country.
  - bsder 6y ago
    If you consider driving 3+ hours close ... And a "grad student" is generally damn poor (and I was) ... My point was that Neiman-Marcus had a product (properly fitted business suits) that was actually (probably upper) middle class. And that product, in fact, served its purpose really well. People still underestimate the effect that an excellent suit has on people's perception of you in business. Being tech, I normally cruise around in really casual wear. However, investor meetings demand something a little more upscale so I'm pulling out my nice suit. I chuckle at the difference in behavior of the people around me (both employees and strangers) when I show up for work in a suit.
    - whatok 6y ago
      You valued and knew to value a suit for your purposes in 1995. Most people now or in 1995 did not drive three hours to buy a suit. The number of jobs that require a suit for everyday use is definitely down vs 1995 and you can rent a suit (not vouching for fit here) if you need one for interviews which is the primary use for most people who do not wear one on a daily basis. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said on making a good impression but that doesn't change anything on the fact that Neiman Marcus has never been for middle class shoppers. A one-off purchase does not make a customer base.
- listenallyall 6y ago
  >> is Neiman-Marcus to blame for going further upscale You made one purchase at N-M 25 years ago, and from that single experience, you're generalizing the entire merchandising strategy of the brand ever since then? And your premise is false anyway. The 1 and only Valentino suit currently available at neimanmarcus.com costs $1173, which is less than $1200: https://www.neimanmarcus.com/search.jsp?aq=valenti&dq=valentino&filterOptions=%7B%22Category%22%3A%5B%22men%22%2C%22menclothing%22%2C%22menclothingsuitsseparates%22%5D%7D&fl=&from=brSearch&l=valentino&page=1&q=valentino&request_type=search&responsive=true&search_type=keyword&src=suggest https://www.neimanmarcus.com/search.jsp?aq=valenti&dq=valent...
chiph 6y ago
I took a shortcut through my local Neiman Marcus last year (I wanted a Five-Guys burger), and looking at what they had for sale and their prices, I couldn't help but think "Even if you're super rich, you'd be nuts to shop here." They had a black t-shirt with some rhinestones (presumably) on it for $5000. It was probably from some famous designer, but still .. $5000 for a t-shirt that had been gone over with a BeDazzler? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m766NNpwVg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m766NNpwVg
- chillacy 6y ago
  > probably from some famous designer I mean that's it in its entirety right? Otherwise by similar reduction, a Picasso is just some acrylic on canvas.
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
    But I’d wager 90% of people know who Picasso was and can recognise his work. But what percentage of the general public can spot a Nieman Marcus buy from a thrift-store find?
    - dajohnson89 6y ago
      i bet more people in the world recognize the Gucci logo than can recognize a Picasso.
      - lostmsu 6y ago
        Unlikely. There are entire countries who could not care less about Gucci. Hell, I might not be able to recognize it's logo.
        chillacy 6y ago
        Which countries did you have in mind and why would they care about Picasso? Western art history is probably not all that common of a study subject around the world.

Middle class doesn’t shop at Neiman Marcus though.

by vl 6y ago

Middle class doesn’t shop at Neiman Marcus though.

I think the suggestion here is that they used to, until the American Middle Class was forcibly merged into the American Lower Middle Class.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
But they still didn't. I went into Neiman Marcus in Dallas in 1991, just to look around. I found a leather jacket, with red... I'm not even sure what to call it. Paint? It was a layer on top of the leather, not dye. It looked very tacky. And it was $1000. In 1991. Well, even in 1991, the middle class had a lot less expensive places to buy tacky-looking junk.
freepor 6y ago
No, Neiman Marcus has always been an upper crust store with extravagant Christmas catalogs.

bsder 6y ago

That wasn't always true. When I started interviewing out of grad school, I REALLY stretched to go buy a nice suit from Neiman-Marcus, a Valentino at $700 in 1995. The suit was gorgeous and the tailor at N-M did a beautiful job adjusting it to me. I could be considered, barely, middle-class--certainly the lower end at best. The suit absolutely paid for itself many times over--that's a different set of stories. That Valentino is now closer to $5,000. Inflation says that Valentino should be about $1,200. I suspect that even at $1,200 most students couldn't stretch for it today. So, is Neiman-Marcus to blame for going further upscale given that they probably can't make any money in the middle anymore?

whatok 6y ago
All I've taken away from this is Valentino is more expensive in 2020 than it should be. By nature of you even being physically close enough to a Neiman Marcus in 1995, chances are you were of higher income than the rest of the country. They're still located in mostly more wealthy areas of the country.
- bsder 6y ago
  If you consider driving 3+ hours close ... And a "grad student" is generally damn poor (and I was) ... My point was that Neiman-Marcus had a product (properly fitted business suits) that was actually (probably upper) middle class. And that product, in fact, served its purpose really well. People still underestimate the effect that an excellent suit has on people's perception of you in business. Being tech, I normally cruise around in really casual wear. However, investor meetings demand something a little more upscale so I'm pulling out my nice suit. I chuckle at the difference in behavior of the people around me (both employees and strangers) when I show up for work in a suit.
  - whatok 6y ago
    You valued and knew to value a suit for your purposes in 1995. Most people now or in 1995 did not drive three hours to buy a suit. The number of jobs that require a suit for everyday use is definitely down vs 1995 and you can rent a suit (not vouching for fit here) if you need one for interviews which is the primary use for most people who do not wear one on a daily basis. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said on making a good impression but that doesn't change anything on the fact that Neiman Marcus has never been for middle class shoppers. A one-off purchase does not make a customer base.
listenallyall 6y ago
>> is Neiman-Marcus to blame for going further upscale You made one purchase at N-M 25 years ago, and from that single experience, you're generalizing the entire merchandising strategy of the brand ever since then? And your premise is false anyway. The 1 and only Valentino suit currently available at neimanmarcus.com costs $1173, which is less than $1200: https://www.neimanmarcus.com/search.jsp?aq=valenti&dq=valentino&filterOptions=%7B%22Category%22%3A%5B%22men%22%2C%22menclothing%22%2C%22menclothingsuitsseparates%22%5D%7D&fl=&from=brSearch&l=valentino&page=1&q=valentino&request_type=search&responsive=true&search_type=keyword&src=suggest https://www.neimanmarcus.com/search.jsp?aq=valenti&dq=valent...

chiph 6y ago

I took a shortcut through my local Neiman Marcus last year (I wanted a Five-Guys burger), and looking at what they had for sale and their prices, I couldn't help but think "Even if you're super rich, you'd be nuts to shop here." They had a black t-shirt with some rhinestones (presumably) on it for $5000. It was probably from some famous designer, but still .. $5000 for a t-shirt that had been gone over with a BeDazzler? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m766NNpwVg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m766NNpwVg

chillacy 6y ago
> probably from some famous designer I mean that's it in its entirety right? Otherwise by similar reduction, a Picasso is just some acrylic on canvas.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  But I’d wager 90% of people know who Picasso was and can recognise his work. But what percentage of the general public can spot a Nieman Marcus buy from a thrift-store find?
  - dajohnson89 6y ago
    i bet more people in the world recognize the Gucci logo than can recognize a Picasso.
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      Unlikely. There are entire countries who could not care less about Gucci. Hell, I might not be able to recognize it's logo.
      - chillacy 6y ago
        Which countries did you have in mind and why would they care about Picasso? Western art history is probably not all that common of a study subject around the world.