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Oh man, you really overestimate the CCP's media competence. Take a look at the state media and propaganda in China. It's all very traditional, very straightfor

Oh man, you really overestimate the CCP's media competence. Take a look at the state media and propaganda in China. It's all very traditional, very straightforward, mostly fact based (even if cherry-picked). Even the infamous 50 cents army is pretty stupid, and not what you think it is: https://www.quora.com/Does-the-50-cent-army-really-exist-and-if-so-whats-the-point-It-seems-like-its-only-worsened-Chinas-international-image/answer/Truever-Zhang https://www.quora.com/Does-the-50-cent-army-really-exist-and... CCP influencing online discussions in the west? Hahahaha! As someone who's neutral (not even supportive) about the CCP, I can only hope that they become that competent within a decade. Those idiots still have no idea how sophisticated communication with western audiences needs to be. In the mean time, western media walks all over them, even with stories that are easily debunked.

seppin 6y ago
> As someone who's neutral (not even supportive) about the CCP, I can only hope that they become that competent within a decade. You don't sound very neutral.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  I am not surprised that you think that. A lot of western discourse has gone so far off to the anti China direction that anything neutral people say can come over as pro CCP. I am not. I have plenty of critique against them. But the sentiment in HN is already so anti China that there is no need for me to voice that critique. I am not even saying "CCP good". I am saying "CCP not as bad as you think" and "there are alternative perspectives that are just as valid". As for my hope that they become competent in media: it is to counter all the obvious lies. I mean... Wuhan lab virus? Really? And people willingly believe these stories all over the world?
  - seppin 6y ago
    You just keep saying "everyone is anti-China" over and over without clarifying what you actually mean. Your insistence on not making a distinction between the CCP and the Chinese people makes it hard to engage in any discussion, as criticism of one is taken as criticism of the other. I have a strong feeling the CCP is depending on this mentality from it's people, playing up ethnonationalism and xenophobia to distract from any criticism towards them. You said clearly you wish the CCP had better propaganda and communication, why? That would make them stronger, yet you claim to not be in favor of them. Do you care to clarify?
    - FooBarWidget 6y ago
      You raise an interesting point when you ask me to explain why I think HN is anti-China. It was so self-evident to me, but apparently you don't experience it as such. Maybe the HN crowd is not so much anti-China, but rather just misinformed, by virtue of living in the western media bubble which paints a one-sided picture of China. I gave the Wuhan lab virus theory as an example. Actually the entire COVID-19 reporting is a big example, and is what triggered me to speak up in the first place. I was in China in January, I personally witnessed the news, lockdown progression, etc. And yet when I look at western reporting, there is so much misinformation, so much unjustified blame for things that are obviously not true. For example, I see so many comments on HN saying China covered up for months (they didn't -- downplayed jan 1 to jan 20 at most), saying that China deliberately allowed international flights from Wuhan after the lockdown in order to infect the world (they didn't), and more. I see so many extreme, obviously untrue information, that I see this as anti-China. And Chinese media is very weak against such unsubstantiated attacks. How can I sit back, see all the lies and bullying, and not hope that Chinese media gets their act together? This has got nothing to do with whether I support the CCP in the end -- just because CCP has problems, and that there are legit criticisms against CCP, doesn't mean we should accept lies against CCP, nor does it mean that they shouldn't be able to defend themselves against lies.
      - seppin 6y ago
        > You raise an interesting point when you ask me to explain why I think HN is anti-China. It was so self-evident to me, but apparently you don't experience it as such. Maybe the HN crowd is not so much anti-China, but rather just misinformed, by virtue of living in the western media bubble which paints a one-sided picture of China. Again, you're not actually saying anything here, these are just your perceptions. > I see so many extreme, obviously untrue information, that I see this as anti-China. Right as I said it seems that you view all criticism of the Chinese Communist Party as criticism of China and Chinese people. This makes you a (ethno)nationalist, which is ironically another western stereotype. That Chinese see all criticism of China as criticism of them personally. > And Chinese media is very weak against such unsubstantiated attacks. How can I sit back, see all the lies and bullying, and not hope that Chinese media gets their act together? It's hard to make any conclusion other than you see the CCP as fighting for your image as well as their own. I'm wondering if you are willing to concede this is the case, and if so how do you suggest someone like me to attempt any sort of dialogue? Seems self-defeating. And if in your opinion I got something wrong, what is it? Thanks for your response ahead of time, I come in good faith to better understand you and your perspective.

seppin 6y ago

> As someone who's neutral (not even supportive) about the CCP, I can only hope that they become that competent within a decade. You don't sound very neutral.

FooBarWidget 6y ago
I am not surprised that you think that. A lot of western discourse has gone so far off to the anti China direction that anything neutral people say can come over as pro CCP. I am not. I have plenty of critique against them. But the sentiment in HN is already so anti China that there is no need for me to voice that critique. I am not even saying "CCP good". I am saying "CCP not as bad as you think" and "there are alternative perspectives that are just as valid". As for my hope that they become competent in media: it is to counter all the obvious lies. I mean... Wuhan lab virus? Really? And people willingly believe these stories all over the world?
- seppin 6y ago
  You just keep saying "everyone is anti-China" over and over without clarifying what you actually mean. Your insistence on not making a distinction between the CCP and the Chinese people makes it hard to engage in any discussion, as criticism of one is taken as criticism of the other. I have a strong feeling the CCP is depending on this mentality from it's people, playing up ethnonationalism and xenophobia to distract from any criticism towards them. You said clearly you wish the CCP had better propaganda and communication, why? That would make them stronger, yet you claim to not be in favor of them. Do you care to clarify?
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    You raise an interesting point when you ask me to explain why I think HN is anti-China. It was so self-evident to me, but apparently you don't experience it as such. Maybe the HN crowd is not so much anti-China, but rather just misinformed, by virtue of living in the western media bubble which paints a one-sided picture of China. I gave the Wuhan lab virus theory as an example. Actually the entire COVID-19 reporting is a big example, and is what triggered me to speak up in the first place. I was in China in January, I personally witnessed the news, lockdown progression, etc. And yet when I look at western reporting, there is so much misinformation, so much unjustified blame for things that are obviously not true. For example, I see so many comments on HN saying China covered up for months (they didn't -- downplayed jan 1 to jan 20 at most), saying that China deliberately allowed international flights from Wuhan after the lockdown in order to infect the world (they didn't), and more. I see so many extreme, obviously untrue information, that I see this as anti-China. And Chinese media is very weak against such unsubstantiated attacks. How can I sit back, see all the lies and bullying, and not hope that Chinese media gets their act together? This has got nothing to do with whether I support the CCP in the end -- just because CCP has problems, and that there are legit criticisms against CCP, doesn't mean we should accept lies against CCP, nor does it mean that they shouldn't be able to defend themselves against lies.
    - seppin 6y ago
      > You raise an interesting point when you ask me to explain why I think HN is anti-China. It was so self-evident to me, but apparently you don't experience it as such. Maybe the HN crowd is not so much anti-China, but rather just misinformed, by virtue of living in the western media bubble which paints a one-sided picture of China. Again, you're not actually saying anything here, these are just your perceptions. > I see so many extreme, obviously untrue information, that I see this as anti-China. Right as I said it seems that you view all criticism of the Chinese Communist Party as criticism of China and Chinese people. This makes you a (ethno)nationalist, which is ironically another western stereotype. That Chinese see all criticism of China as criticism of them personally. > And Chinese media is very weak against such unsubstantiated attacks. How can I sit back, see all the lies and bullying, and not hope that Chinese media gets their act together? It's hard to make any conclusion other than you see the CCP as fighting for your image as well as their own. I'm wondering if you are willing to concede this is the case, and if so how do you suggest someone like me to attempt any sort of dialogue? Seems self-defeating. And if in your opinion I got something wrong, what is it? Thanks for your response ahead of time, I come in good faith to better understand you and your perspective.