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My issue with Sidewalk Labs was the incredibly obvious facade they put up: pretending to care about making cities better when it really was just a thin veneer o

by na85 6y ago

My issue with Sidewalk Labs was the incredibly obvious facade they put up: pretending to care about making cities better when it really was just a thin veneer over finding new ways to expand surveillance capitalism. In fact their "Head of Urban Systems" was quoted[0] as saying that public discussions over data ownership and privacy were "irresponsible". The true agenda is plainly obvious to anyone who cares to look. I'm heartened to see that there is a slow but growing opposition to parasitic business practices such as Sidewalk Labs' proposal and surveillance capitalism in general. Despite Zuckerberg's attempts to convince us that privacy is dead[1], I think people still realize on some base level that privacy, especially offline, is still valuable. [0] https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/09/how-smart-should-a-city-be-toronto-is-finding-out/569116/ https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/09/how-smart-should-a-ci... [1] https://youtu.be/LoWKGBloMsU https://youtu.be/LoWKGBloMsU

verelo 6y ago
So this comment is being downvoted a lot, but i've got to say there was a lot of concern from local residents. The largest concern everyone raised with me was that "Google will ditch this as soon as it suits them, leaving us with a mess of 'smart tech' to deal with for decades to come". Well, i hate to say it, maybe they were right? Turns out they ditched it before it even got moving, this might be a blessing in disguise.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Unfortunately, a lot of people in tech ascribe to a kind of utopian imperialism. It doesn’t matter what people themselves want, it’s about what engineered fantasies can be imposed upon them.
  - na85 6y ago
    Yeah I dunno, I'm basically showering in downvotes right now but it seems to be just Silicon Valley types who are upset that Torontonians didn't welcome their dystopia with fanfare and adulation.
koheripbal 6y ago
"surveillance capitalism". Sounds like the latest meaningless activism buzzword that tries to engender anti-surveillance support from anti-capitalists. What's next, Communist Vegans?
- na85 6y ago
  Surveillance Capitalism is a well established term that means exactly what it sounds like - capitalism based upon surveillance. This is exactly the business model that Facebook and Google operate upon, and exactly what Sidewalk Labs was attempting. They claim to be benevolent saviours but really they're just there to watch everyone and sell the data to advertisers, governments, and Palantir-alikes.
- pdkl95 6y ago
  If you really haven't heard the term "surveillance capitalism" before, this[1] interview is a very good overview of the topic, including this explanation of the term: >> So even early on in the theorizing of capitalism it was understood that capitalism takes on different market forms and different eras in the context of different technologies. We’ve had mercantile capitalism, and we’ve had factory capitalism, and mass-production capitalism, and managerial capitalism, financial capitalism. And typically what happens in these new concepts is that modifier, like “mass production,” or in my case “surveillance” capitalism, what that modifier is doing is pinpointing the pivot of value creation in this new market form. > engender anti-surveillance support from anti-capitalists Every anti-capitalist I know has already been anti-surveillance for a long time. [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/shoshana-zuboff-q-and-a-the-age-of-surveillance-capital.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/shoshana-zuboff-q-an...
v7p1Qbt1im 6y ago
I‘m not defending massive tech companies. But in this case it might be a bit different. Back when Larry Page still did interviews he mentioned a couple of times that the concept of cities needs to be rethought. Talking out of my ass I‘m pretty sure that he more or less told Doctoroff to go wild and handed him 100 million. Alphabet can kind of do this stuff because so far their still growing steadily and a majority of voting shares are with the founders. So if there is any company I kind of buy, that they didn‘t necessarily have profit as the first priority, it would be Sidewalk Labs. They can always figure that out later. Worst case they spend a couple hundred millions and nothing came of it. Except many theoretical ideas about city building would have been known to work or not. Maybe I‘m naive. But imagine you had a gazillion dollars and owned one of the most powerful entities ever. Wouldn‘t you want to try crazy shit that you thought of as a kid. Well Page/Brin can I guess.
- na85 6y ago
  >They can always figure that out later. And therein lies the problem. If they don't have a business model for profitability then they'll just fall back on the corporate DNA, which is surveillance and tracking for profit.

by na85 6y ago

verelo 6y ago

So this comment is being downvoted a lot, but i've got to say there was a lot of concern from local residents. The largest concern everyone raised with me was that "Google will ditch this as soon as it suits them, leaving us with a mess of 'smart tech' to deal with for decades to come". Well, i hate to say it, maybe they were right? Turns out they ditched it before it even got moving, this might be a blessing in disguise.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
claudeganon 6y ago
Unfortunately, a lot of people in tech ascribe to a kind of utopian imperialism. It doesn’t matter what people themselves want, it’s about what engineered fantasies can be imposed upon them.
- na85 6y ago
  Yeah I dunno, I'm basically showering in downvotes right now but it seems to be just Silicon Valley types who are upset that Torontonians didn't welcome their dystopia with fanfare and adulation.

koheripbal 6y ago

"surveillance capitalism". Sounds like the latest meaningless activism buzzword that tries to engender anti-surveillance support from anti-capitalists. What's next, Communist Vegans?

na85 6y ago
Surveillance Capitalism is a well established term that means exactly what it sounds like - capitalism based upon surveillance. This is exactly the business model that Facebook and Google operate upon, and exactly what Sidewalk Labs was attempting. They claim to be benevolent saviours but really they're just there to watch everyone and sell the data to advertisers, governments, and Palantir-alikes.
pdkl95 6y ago
If you really haven't heard the term "surveillance capitalism" before, this[1] interview is a very good overview of the topic, including this explanation of the term: >> So even early on in the theorizing of capitalism it was understood that capitalism takes on different market forms and different eras in the context of different technologies. We’ve had mercantile capitalism, and we’ve had factory capitalism, and mass-production capitalism, and managerial capitalism, financial capitalism. And typically what happens in these new concepts is that modifier, like “mass production,” or in my case “surveillance” capitalism, what that modifier is doing is pinpointing the pivot of value creation in this new market form. > engender anti-surveillance support from anti-capitalists Every anti-capitalist I know has already been anti-surveillance for a long time. [1] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/shoshana-zuboff-q-and-a-the-age-of-surveillance-capital.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/shoshana-zuboff-q-an...

v7p1Qbt1im 6y ago

I‘m not defending massive tech companies. But in this case it might be a bit different. Back when Larry Page still did interviews he mentioned a couple of times that the concept of cities needs to be rethought. Talking out of my ass I‘m pretty sure that he more or less told Doctoroff to go wild and handed him 100 million. Alphabet can kind of do this stuff because so far their still growing steadily and a majority of voting shares are with the founders. So if there is any company I kind of buy, that they didn‘t necessarily have profit as the first priority, it would be Sidewalk Labs. They can always figure that out later. Worst case they spend a couple hundred millions and nothing came of it. Except many theoretical ideas about city building would have been known to work or not. Maybe I‘m naive. But imagine you had a gazillion dollars and owned one of the most powerful entities ever. Wouldn‘t you want to try crazy shit that you thought of as a kid. Well Page/Brin can I guess.

na85 6y ago
>They can always figure that out later. And therein lies the problem. If they don't have a business model for profitability then they'll just fall back on the corporate DNA, which is surveillance and tracking for profit.