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Exactly. People 20-30 years ago ate that stuff up; these days I think most people see it as garish and tacky. Wealth signaling absolutely still happens, but to

by _bxg1 6y ago

Exactly. People 20-30 years ago ate that stuff up; these days I think most people see it as garish and tacky. Wealth signaling absolutely still happens, but today the facades it tends to orbit around involve words like "minimal", "natural", "open", "honest". Organic groceries, modernist houses, meditation retreats to exotic places, environmentally-friendly vehicles, freedom from clutter and complication. These, sadly, are unattainable for many people. And so of course, brands have co-opted and packaged up that fact to be sold as a set of signals that make people feel good about themselves in comparison to others.

gen220 6y ago
I grew up in the south bay, around the early-googler generation of nouveau-wealth. I assumed the kind of wealth signalling typical then was normal. In my experience, fancy clothes were very abnormal and got you the wrong kind of looks. People liked to live in very nice houses on expensive land, but flaunting your wealth beyond that (and maybe your fast car) was generally looked down upon. Porsches were seen as a mid-life-crisis kinda thing. I moved to NYC for after high school, and was incredibly shocked to see people actually wearing Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and not feeling self-conscious but rather better for it. I was likewise shocked to see how expensive the trendy secondhand stores were, again compared to the bay area. It all seemed designed so that, if you saw someone dressed in a certain style of clothing (either "boho-chic" or fancy brands), you could be safely confident they were rich. I used to be repulsed and holier-than-thou about this kind of thing. But now, when I go back to the valley to visit my parents, I recognize the same things flourishing there, where I naively thought the "humble Californian spirit" wouldn't allow them to take root. It's been kind of sad to see the Santana Row-ification of the south bay take place during my lifetime, but everything moves in cycles, I suppose. Does this match anyone else's experience? Is there a place where humility has survived as a popularly-held virtue, even in the face of not-atypical wealth/abundance?
- colechristensen 6y ago
  Bay area people value signal, if anything, more, but just in different ways. Not to distill it too much, but generally through social media posts about experiences, social issue positions, and "genuine"-ness.
- reducesuffering 6y ago
  Also grew up in the Bay. The peninsula and the South Bay are the epicenter of the Facebook, Google, and Apple wealth. As these companies have flourished, the surrounding area has become extremely flush with wealth. It was only a matter of time before the materialism that has been seen in LA and NYC set in as the Bay is in its heyday. If you're looking for humility, you'll find it centered around UC Berkeley and Oakland, as opposed to Stanford. The dichotomy between the two prestigious Bay universities is clear and they are the centers of the differences between the portions of the Bay. It's reflected by the types of students that attend and people drawn to the surrounding areas.
  - 205guy 6y ago
    I was going to say the "humility" went north to SF, that's when SOMA became big and SF went from a banking center with a hippy fringe to a software center with a hipster fringe. Through it all, the old money has lived on Nob hill and shopped at Union Square (the local Nieman Marcus), but look at the gentrification of everything else. The sense of style and fashion of the newly-rich in SF drove the hipster look, which had its own issues but least it was nominally independent and not all about buying flashy brands at stores. I do love the Stanford campus and Palo Alto downtown, but I do think they were marred by the big money. For example, Stanford literally has a luxury fashion mall (probably with a Nieman Marcus store) on campus (and it probably is the most profitable part of the endowment). As for Sunnyvale-Santa Clara-San Jose, they just chose the suburban sprawl development when the money rolled in.
- achillesheels 6y ago
  I grew up in an eichler neighborhood same time as you where one out of five households bought the gen 2 Prius. That was virtue signaling. I caught wind of some tech youtube vlog drama this week and I noticed that the newer generations view FAANG like some viewed Wall St. in the 80’s. The sorting hat for riches changes the gnomish wonder years of the Valley for sure. Also, the open air elitism is just plain tawdry now. I would say San Diego has the closest look and feel to the South Bay when we grew up. Hard tech in the bio and life sciences provides an educational attainment culture and not so much cash chasing.
  - gen220 6y ago
    ha! I forgot about how big a deal the priuses were back then. Remember the whale-tail license plates? https://www.sgvtribune.com/2017/09/22/after-20-years-californias-whale-license-plates-remain-one-of-states-most-successful-environmental-programs-ever/ https://www.sgvtribune.com/2017/09/22/after-20-years-califor... If you sat on a busy suburban corner, you'd find 1 in 5 cars to be a particular-color prius with a whale tail. :) I also totally agree that it's mostly the newcomers' barefaced pursuit of wealth and becoming "elite", that's driving this shift. People used to want to move to the bay because that's where UNIX geeks and internet enthusiasts went to find like-minded individuals (after Bell's decline) and get funding. Now it's where the aspiring class goes to join the top 10%, and the goods and services cater to it. Last time I went back (immediately before the whole COVID situation), my SO and I did a road trip from LA to Sacramento, staying mostly with family along the way. We found San Luis Obispo and the various towns between it and Santa Barbara to be varied and delightful (Los Osos, Solvang, Avila & Shell Beach). Cambria also seemed nice, but we blazed through it. The little communities west a north of Santa Cruz, in the mountains also have a special place in my heart. Next time we're back, I'll try to visit SD. However, I can't help but notice that all of these towns are smaller and much less of a mixing pot than the greater San Jose area, though. I thought one of the coolest parts of my early life was how it was extremely normal to be surrounded by people of diverse socioeconomic and ethnic backgrounds (I went to a public school), and also how normal it was to dream big (social mobility was all around you). Maybe it's a time and place thing, and it doesn't come together very often.
    - 6y ago

by _bxg1 6y ago

gen220 6y ago

I grew up in the south bay, around the early-googler generation of nouveau-wealth. I assumed the kind of wealth signalling typical then was normal. In my experience, fancy clothes were very abnormal and got you the wrong kind of looks. People liked to live in very nice houses on expensive land, but flaunting your wealth beyond that (and maybe your fast car) was generally looked down upon. Porsches were seen as a mid-life-crisis kinda thing. I moved to NYC for after high school, and was incredibly shocked to see people actually wearing Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and not feeling self-conscious but rather better for it. I was likewise shocked to see how expensive the trendy secondhand stores were, again compared to the bay area. It all seemed designed so that, if you saw someone dressed in a certain style of clothing (either "boho-chic" or fancy brands), you could be safely confident they were rich. I used to be repulsed and holier-than-thou about this kind of thing. But now, when I go back to the valley to visit my parents, I recognize the same things flourishing there, where I naively thought the "humble Californian spirit" wouldn't allow them to take root. It's been kind of sad to see the Santana Row-ification of the south bay take place during my lifetime, but everything moves in cycles, I suppose. Does this match anyone else's experience? Is there a place where humility has survived as a popularly-held virtue, even in the face of not-atypical wealth/abundance?

colechristensen 6y ago
Bay area people value signal, if anything, more, but just in different ways. Not to distill it too much, but generally through social media posts about experiences, social issue positions, and "genuine"-ness.
reducesuffering 6y ago
Also grew up in the Bay. The peninsula and the South Bay are the epicenter of the Facebook, Google, and Apple wealth. As these companies have flourished, the surrounding area has become extremely flush with wealth. It was only a matter of time before the materialism that has been seen in LA and NYC set in as the Bay is in its heyday. If you're looking for humility, you'll find it centered around UC Berkeley and Oakland, as opposed to Stanford. The dichotomy between the two prestigious Bay universities is clear and they are the centers of the differences between the portions of the Bay. It's reflected by the types of students that attend and people drawn to the surrounding areas.
- 205guy 6y ago
  I was going to say the "humility" went north to SF, that's when SOMA became big and SF went from a banking center with a hippy fringe to a software center with a hipster fringe. Through it all, the old money has lived on Nob hill and shopped at Union Square (the local Nieman Marcus), but look at the gentrification of everything else. The sense of style and fashion of the newly-rich in SF drove the hipster look, which had its own issues but least it was nominally independent and not all about buying flashy brands at stores. I do love the Stanford campus and Palo Alto downtown, but I do think they were marred by the big money. For example, Stanford literally has a luxury fashion mall (probably with a Nieman Marcus store) on campus (and it probably is the most profitable part of the endowment). As for Sunnyvale-Santa Clara-San Jose, they just chose the suburban sprawl development when the money rolled in.
achillesheels 6y ago
I grew up in an eichler neighborhood same time as you where one out of five households bought the gen 2 Prius. That was virtue signaling. I caught wind of some tech youtube vlog drama this week and I noticed that the newer generations view FAANG like some viewed Wall St. in the 80’s. The sorting hat for riches changes the gnomish wonder years of the Valley for sure. Also, the open air elitism is just plain tawdry now. I would say San Diego has the closest look and feel to the South Bay when we grew up. Hard tech in the bio and life sciences provides an educational attainment culture and not so much cash chasing.
- gen220 6y ago
  ha! I forgot about how big a deal the priuses were back then. Remember the whale-tail license plates? https://www.sgvtribune.com/2017/09/22/after-20-years-californias-whale-license-plates-remain-one-of-states-most-successful-environmental-programs-ever/ https://www.sgvtribune.com/2017/09/22/after-20-years-califor... If you sat on a busy suburban corner, you'd find 1 in 5 cars to be a particular-color prius with a whale tail. :) I also totally agree that it's mostly the newcomers' barefaced pursuit of wealth and becoming "elite", that's driving this shift. People used to want to move to the bay because that's where UNIX geeks and internet enthusiasts went to find like-minded individuals (after Bell's decline) and get funding. Now it's where the aspiring class goes to join the top 10%, and the goods and services cater to it. Last time I went back (immediately before the whole COVID situation), my SO and I did a road trip from LA to Sacramento, staying mostly with family along the way. We found San Luis Obispo and the various towns between it and Santa Barbara to be varied and delightful (Los Osos, Solvang, Avila & Shell Beach). Cambria also seemed nice, but we blazed through it. The little communities west a north of Santa Cruz, in the mountains also have a special place in my heart. Next time we're back, I'll try to visit SD. However, I can't help but notice that all of these towns are smaller and much less of a mixing pot than the greater San Jose area, though. I thought one of the coolest parts of my early life was how it was extremely normal to be surrounded by people of diverse socioeconomic and ethnic backgrounds (I went to a public school), and also how normal it was to dream big (social mobility was all around you). Maybe it's a time and place thing, and it doesn't come together very often.
  - 6y ago