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> That's what rubs me the wrong way: that kind of phrase is a throwaway. You're pro-winning. Great. Until I read your blog, I was a firm believer in losing? May

> That's what rubs me the wrong way: that kind of phrase is a throwaway. You're pro-winning. Great. Until I read your blog, I was a firm believer in losing? Maybe it was because I was striving to be as mediocre as possible, rather than... "excellent"? Actually, maybe not you, but I think a lot of the modern world is fundamentally anti-excellence. Maybe America less than most places, but a lot of the world Tall Poppy Syndrome going on - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome A Swedish friend of mine is a talented mathematician, professional poker player, and was a highly competitive athlete before a shoulder injury derailed him. He said he got all kinds of negativity and abuse and people really hating him for what he did, despite the fact that he's like the nicest, kindest, friendliest person I know. He says they have this phrase for it in Sweden - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law So yeah. I think a lot of the world is actually anti-winning, anti-excellence. Look how rich are always portrayed in movies. They're always the bad guys. Look at how the star players get booed. Look at how people cheer against the New York Yankees just because it's a successful and extremely well-run organization that wins. > I'm not trying to be a wiseass (well, maybe a little), but do you see what I'm getting at? I understand. Most people don't realize that things are like this because it's so normal. But if you seriously break the mold and go counter-mainstream/counter-culture, you're going to get serious abuse from people. Almost everyone that breaks the mold does. I think that's garbage, that ambition should be celebrated, that achievement should be celebrated, etc. I also spend a lot of time working on various time tracking and habits and reading lots of science and things like that, but that more pedestrian stuff never really gets spread around the internet - so if you only see my site on an occasional one that climbs HN or Twitter retweet, you're probably seeing the more controversial/aggressive stuff. I'm a believer in hard work and putting the time in too, I'm not a fan of rah-rah-go-go. But to answer your question, yeah, I think a lot of the world is fundamentally anti-excellence, anti-standing-out. And I think that's bad.

klbarry 16y ago
Well said. Another metaphor for this is the crab bucket. If you've ever seen a bunch of crabs boiled in a bucket, you'll notice that don't have to use lids. If a crab tries to escape the other crabs pull it back down. This is often used as a metaphor for the slums.
PonyGumbo 16y ago
>Look at how the star players get booed. Look at how people cheer against the New York Yankees just because it's a successful and extremely well-run organization that wins. Don't confuse a distaste for egomania with a hatred of achievement. People don't boo the guy who comes from nowhere, works his ass off, and remains humble despite success. People boo hubris.
stcredzero 16y ago
Actually, maybe not you, but I think a lot of the modern world is fundamentally anti-excellence. Maybe America less than most places, but a lot of the world Tall Poppy Syndrome going on - Yes, a lot of the world is at least ambivalent about personal excellence. I think most of the world is trained in school to do enough to plausibly cover their ass and stay out of trouble. That makes them good cogs in the burgeoning machinery of society, but useless to an entrepreneur. I notice this a lot in music. Many people in America think it's more important to praise some kid for doing some worthless flubbery musical thing than it is to just appreciate good music. If you just be sincere and applaud for what you really like (as opposed to what gets your attention while you try to talk over the music) your kid might pick up on and be inspired by your passion for music. Applauding for any old flubbery thing just to bolster self esteem just teaches kids that it's all bullshit, fake, and you're trapped in a suburban put-on devoid of real meaning.
davidw 16y ago
My advice would be to find a better way to capture that spirit than "winning! excellence! to infinity and beyond!", which to me at least, just sounds corny. Like many people here, I don't fit into a mold at all, but am pretty comfortable with my life and with most people I deal with. Maybe it comes with age. With sports, at least, I think people like to see the underdog win because the idea of "sport" isn't just about who's best on paper. For instance, with cyclists, there is an impressive array of physiological tests they take, but it's more fun to watch the races, rather than simply decide, say, the Tour de France over who has a bigger VO2 MAX in the lab.
- zacharycohn 16y ago
  "My advice would be to find a better way to capture that spirit than "winning! excellence! to infinity and beyond!", which to me at least, just sounds corny." Not sure how much of Sebastian's work you've read, but none of it really comes across as corny. It's hard to describe the "point" of his blog. His writings really are all over the place, but almost every single one is legitimately interesting and contains some unique or novel insight. I think because the topics are so diverse, when you end up simplifying it to "pro-winning" it sounds a little "eh." But if you actually read it, you start to understand what he means.
- dandelany 16y ago
  Might you consider picking your battles a little better? His sole purpose is motivating others to achieve excellence. I'm not sure what you stand to gain by continuing to pick on a guy whose biggest crime is corniness.
  - davidw 16y ago
    I'm not "picking a battle" or trying to belittle Sebastian, I'm just giving him my honest opinion of how he comes across, which I think 1) he can handle, and 2) is perhaps doing him a favor. I'm not saying anything I wouldn't say to his face.
deleted 16y ago
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danssig 16y ago
>but I think a lot of the modern world is fundamentally anti-excellence. The world isn't as black-and-white as you're indicating here. People are skeptical of the rich guy because for so long the main way to get rich was to rob people. Some rich people still get rich that way today. Many others don't do anything illegal but they're not nice people and aren't what I would call "excellence" by any stretch. As for booing stars, I think that's usually jealousy and ignorance. They don't understand why he/she is making that much, how long the stars career can be compared to, say a banker or investor. Sweden, also, isn't about "anti-excellence" it's about the group over the individual. It may be one's opinion that that's the same thing but we really are all in this together (Note: I don't agree with the Swedish approach, I simply don't dismiss it out of hand). >I think that's garbage, that ambition should be celebrated, that achievement should be celebrated, etc. I agree, except in my opinion the ends don't necessarily justify the means. For example, if you make money but do by creating no value, less value than would have been provided otherwise or actual negative value then I don't think that should be celebrated, it should be opposed and discouraged.

klbarry 16y ago

Well said. Another metaphor for this is the crab bucket. If you've ever seen a bunch of crabs boiled in a bucket, you'll notice that don't have to use lids. If a crab tries to escape the other crabs pull it back down. This is often used as a metaphor for the slums.

PonyGumbo 16y ago

>Look at how the star players get booed. Look at how people cheer against the New York Yankees just because it's a successful and extremely well-run organization that wins. Don't confuse a distaste for egomania with a hatred of achievement. People don't boo the guy who comes from nowhere, works his ass off, and remains humble despite success. People boo hubris.

stcredzero 16y ago

Actually, maybe not you, but I think a lot of the modern world is fundamentally anti-excellence. Maybe America less than most places, but a lot of the world Tall Poppy Syndrome going on - Yes, a lot of the world is at least ambivalent about personal excellence. I think most of the world is trained in school to do enough to plausibly cover their ass and stay out of trouble. That makes them good cogs in the burgeoning machinery of society, but useless to an entrepreneur. I notice this a lot in music. Many people in America think it's more important to praise some kid for doing some worthless flubbery musical thing than it is to just appreciate good music. If you just be sincere and applaud for what you really like (as opposed to what gets your attention while you try to talk over the music) your kid might pick up on and be inspired by your passion for music. Applauding for any old flubbery thing just to bolster self esteem just teaches kids that it's all bullshit, fake, and you're trapped in a suburban put-on devoid of real meaning.

davidw 16y ago

My advice would be to find a better way to capture that spirit than "winning! excellence! to infinity and beyond!", which to me at least, just sounds corny. Like many people here, I don't fit into a mold at all, but am pretty comfortable with my life and with most people I deal with. Maybe it comes with age. With sports, at least, I think people like to see the underdog win because the idea of "sport" isn't just about who's best on paper. For instance, with cyclists, there is an impressive array of physiological tests they take, but it's more fun to watch the races, rather than simply decide, say, the Tour de France over who has a bigger VO2 MAX in the lab.

zacharycohn 16y ago
"My advice would be to find a better way to capture that spirit than "winning! excellence! to infinity and beyond!", which to me at least, just sounds corny." Not sure how much of Sebastian's work you've read, but none of it really comes across as corny. It's hard to describe the "point" of his blog. His writings really are all over the place, but almost every single one is legitimately interesting and contains some unique or novel insight. I think because the topics are so diverse, when you end up simplifying it to "pro-winning" it sounds a little "eh." But if you actually read it, you start to understand what he means.
dandelany 16y ago
Might you consider picking your battles a little better? His sole purpose is motivating others to achieve excellence. I'm not sure what you stand to gain by continuing to pick on a guy whose biggest crime is corniness.
- davidw 16y ago
  I'm not "picking a battle" or trying to belittle Sebastian, I'm just giving him my honest opinion of how he comes across, which I think 1) he can handle, and 2) is perhaps doing him a favor. I'm not saying anything I wouldn't say to his face.

deleted 16y ago

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danssig 16y ago

>but I think a lot of the modern world is fundamentally anti-excellence. The world isn't as black-and-white as you're indicating here. People are skeptical of the rich guy because for so long the main way to get rich was to rob people. Some rich people still get rich that way today. Many others don't do anything illegal but they're not nice people and aren't what I would call "excellence" by any stretch. As for booing stars, I think that's usually jealousy and ignorance. They don't understand why he/she is making that much, how long the stars career can be compared to, say a banker or investor. Sweden, also, isn't about "anti-excellence" it's about the group over the individual. It may be one's opinion that that's the same thing but we really are all in this together (Note: I don't agree with the Swedish approach, I simply don't dismiss it out of hand). >I think that's garbage, that ambition should be celebrated, that achievement should be celebrated, etc. I agree, except in my opinion the ends don't necessarily justify the means. For example, if you make money but do by creating no value, less value than would have been provided otherwise or actual negative value then I don't think that should be celebrated, it should be opposed and discouraged.