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Some people may not agree with me but I've always felt that there's an interesting take on our history: Throughout most of civilization, most types of progress
by hnarn 6y ago
Some people may not agree with me but I've always felt that there's an interesting take on our history:
Throughout most of civilization, most types of progress has been the result of the intellectual work of an elite. Most progress in science, art, and pretty much anything comes from a "noble" or some kind of free man either doing it themselves, or directly financing someone who did.
Most people today probably wouldn't buy into the reasons for this class society that were given at the time, and I think most people would probably (hopefully) agree that the progress made by these people can't simply have been due to genetic superiority or divine privilege. I would say it's more likely a combination of cultural capital (smart parents and friends) combined with just regular capital that gave you the benefit of not having to worry about surviving from one year to the next.
So if we accept that most of the work that has pushed humanity forward was made by the "nobility" of the age, whether that's lords from medieval times or obscenely rich venture capitalists of today, then what is the most logical way to structure a society if you want further humanity?
Here, the notion of "human nature" comes in. Some state with certainty that this innate nature will stop certain people from achieving success, because they're simply lazy, or dumb, or whatever else. Some people just want to sit around and drink beer and will never do anything else. Sure, that might be true to a larger or smaller extent, those people will always exist, but if we're talking about broad strokes, general humanity, what is the most beneficial policy?
For me, it has always seemed pretty obvious that you don't want the largest amount of people to work for the largest amount of time possible. Quite the opposite, you want to make sure that all goods and services are being provided, but only enough so that the primary goal can be achieved: to give people as much stress-free spare time as possible without breaking the economy.
If the "nobility" is what furthers human progress, why aren't we trying to create more nobility? And I'm not talking about material wealth and castles, I'm talking about the privilege of being able to just sit around for weeks, months on end and just think about what interests you. Why is it that water spins in a certain way, how do you make an automated temperature/watering system, what's the deal with combustion engines?
I can already hear some people screaming about human nature again, and yes, you are correct: some people will never be interested in this stuff. They'll use their free time for something that benefits no-one in any way. But as sure as you can be those people will exist, there will also be people who could have been the next Newton, the next Kierkegaard, slaving away in a warehouse somewhere, dead in the gate before the race even started.
I really, really hope for a future for humanity where free time isn't seen as a luxury for the few, but a requirement to grow as a human being. I hope to see societies and economies that prioritize something else than short term economical gain and meaningless widgets that get thrown in a pile after years or even months.
- luckylion 6y ago> Quite the opposite, you want to make sure that all goods and services are being provided, but only enough so that the primary goal can be achieved: to give people as much stress-free spare time as possible without breaking the economy. That's solved. 10 square meters, 18°C during winter, 2500 calories a day, and basic health insurance. It's cheap enough that we can supply that to everyone. It's just that people want 40 square meters, 22°C and food that's tasty and diverse and not just nutritious, and they want entertainment and technology etc etc. The basics can easily be taken care of (and are in most Western nations), but nobody wants to be limited to the basics. > I hope to see societies and economies that prioritize something else than short term economical gain and meaningless widgets that get thrown in a pile after years or even months. It's the majority of people that prioritize that which you do not like, it's not some hidden force that makes them. You might give them something else: bring back religion. Not for the elites, but for the masses. The void has to be filled. If you don't want to fill it with consumption, fill it with something else.
- fredsir 6y ago> It's the majority of people that prioritize that which you do not like, it's not some hidden force that makes them. Sure they are. People today grow up being told and shown how to be materialistic, how to value short term economical gain, and so on, and then you get people that are like that. It's not surprising, is it? Humans are very much affected by the culture they grow up in. Our culture rewards greed, values gadgets ... our culture is a culture of bread and circus. So that's what you get, people who want that, because that's what they're taught to like. It's not surprising, is it. To "escape the matrix", you have to seek to do so, it doesn't just happen by itself. And by forcing people to work till they are tired, and sleep till they must work, you don't give them much chance of ever discovering such things, nor any thing that furthers humanity, as hnarn talks about, except in very rare cases where the stars align, and against all odds, it happens, but only rarely, because our society doesn't foster an environment that optimises for such things.
- luckylion 6y agoBut that's just US culture, European cultures are quite different (wealth is suspect in Germany, for example, a rather collectivist society) and we still have plenty of mindless consumerism. And really, nobody here is forced to work till they are tired. Yet still, the utopian society where everybody is working on bettering themselves is not happening. At some point I believe we can consider that it's not the circumstances holding them back, it's just not what most people strive for.