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Should the Europeans ban American equipment? We know the NSA intercepts shipments and tampers with network equipment, on top of everything else they do. We als

by nxc18 6y ago

Should the Europeans ban American equipment? We know the NSA intercepts shipments and tampers with network equipment, on top of everything else they do. We also know a foreign agent (with considerable Chinese debt who was elected with the help of Russian intelligence) is now in the White House. I know it’s fashionable to shit on China (China China China), but it’s not like they’re doing something new and unique. How can you count on the US, or any other country, to be a reliable partner? The POTUS is openly inviting Russian interference in US affairs ffs.

MR4D 6y ago
> Should the Europeans ban American equipment? That's up to them and their own risk assessment. One thing I know for sure is that if they did, the US would wage an economic war so fiercely on Europe, that Nokia & Ericsson would have a tough time doing anything in the US for years to come. Further, collateral damage would include all sorts of manufacturing, which would cripple Germany. Remember the imbalance here: European manufacturing is more dependent upon the US than the US is on Europe. Fully 50% of Germany's GDP is exports, and worse, Germany exported $118bn of goods, while the US exported only $50 to Germany.[1] While that doesn't seem a big difference, once you look at it as a share of each other's economies, it is immense (roughly 3% of German GDP, versus only 0.5% of US GDP). [1] - https://www.americanexpress.com/us/foreign-exchange/articles/international-trade-between-us-and-germany/ https://www.americanexpress.com/us/foreign-exchange/articles...
- tamdar 6y ago
  You are talking about US vs EU and compare US to Germany.
  - MR4D 6y ago
    True, but for a good reason. If you take out the economic engine of Germany, you’re done. They are the banking muscle of the EU, and once that goes, everything goes.
    - tamdar 6y ago
      Not exacly. For sure Germany is one of the core players in UE but don't forget about others. About exp/imp data https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany if you have better data about that please propose correction.
smolder 6y ago
Russia could be nothing more than a scapegoat & cooperator in domestic plots. Imagine if the CIA wanted to manipulate domestic politics. They might use foreigners as a proxy to prevent being implicated for something outside their supposed mission. I'm not saying that I believe that any more than the media narrative, or have any insight into unseen forces at play, but there is also reason for skepticism. Noam Chomsky as one example has said he thinks the hubbub about Russian interference is a farce. Disinformation and influence operations are real and powerful tools.
strken 6y ago
If European nations were worried about vulnerability to the US military they'd probably start by removing all those air bases and nuclear weapons and leaving NATO. They aren't worried about the US, because the US isn't expansionist and generally only applies muscular diplomacy to nations that are small and poor. China has used military force to expand much more recently than the US, making it much more of a concern.
- coliveira 6y ago
  > because the US isn't expansionist The US has military basis everywhere. > only applies muscular diplomacy to nations that are small and poor Is China small and poor? > China has used military force to expand much more recently than the US. The US is fighting 2 wars that will last 20 years, and is looking anxious to start a new one...

by nxc18 6y ago

MR4D 6y ago

> Should the Europeans ban American equipment? That's up to them and their own risk assessment. One thing I know for sure is that if they did, the US would wage an economic war so fiercely on Europe, that Nokia & Ericsson would have a tough time doing anything in the US for years to come. Further, collateral damage would include all sorts of manufacturing, which would cripple Germany. Remember the imbalance here: European manufacturing is more dependent upon the US than the US is on Europe. Fully 50% of Germany's GDP is exports, and worse, Germany exported $118bn of goods, while the US exported only $50 to Germany.[1] While that doesn't seem a big difference, once you look at it as a share of each other's economies, it is immense (roughly 3% of German GDP, versus only 0.5% of US GDP). [1] - https://www.americanexpress.com/us/foreign-exchange/articles/international-trade-between-us-and-germany/ https://www.americanexpress.com/us/foreign-exchange/articles...

tamdar 6y ago
You are talking about US vs EU and compare US to Germany.
- MR4D 6y ago
  True, but for a good reason. If you take out the economic engine of Germany, you’re done. They are the banking muscle of the EU, and once that goes, everything goes.
  - tamdar 6y ago
    Not exacly. For sure Germany is one of the core players in UE but don't forget about others. About exp/imp data https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany if you have better data about that please propose correction.

smolder 6y ago

Russia could be nothing more than a scapegoat & cooperator in domestic plots. Imagine if the CIA wanted to manipulate domestic politics. They might use foreigners as a proxy to prevent being implicated for something outside their supposed mission. I'm not saying that I believe that any more than the media narrative, or have any insight into unseen forces at play, but there is also reason for skepticism. Noam Chomsky as one example has said he thinks the hubbub about Russian interference is a farce. Disinformation and influence operations are real and powerful tools.

strken 6y ago

If European nations were worried about vulnerability to the US military they'd probably start by removing all those air bases and nuclear weapons and leaving NATO. They aren't worried about the US, because the US isn't expansionist and generally only applies muscular diplomacy to nations that are small and poor. China has used military force to expand much more recently than the US, making it much more of a concern.

coliveira 6y ago
> because the US isn't expansionist The US has military basis everywhere. > only applies muscular diplomacy to nations that are small and poor Is China small and poor? > China has used military force to expand much more recently than the US. The US is fighting 2 wars that will last 20 years, and is looking anxious to start a new one...