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> Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the on

> Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good. Ayn Rand I am not a follower of hers but on this particular topic I am reminded of her quotes a lot

ebg13 6y ago
Hers is a perversion from aspect blindness that talks about rights in a vacuum without concern or care about harm. Right (i.e. morally correct) and the right (i.e. morally allowed) are often not the same. A person has the right to deny food to someone who is starving, but it makes the denier repugnant, and I would rather not have them in my society. Rand starts from the faulty premise that the two are the same and descends into madness from there. > I am not a follower of hers but... How are you both not a follower of hers and also driven to conjure quotes? That looks a lot like when someone says "I'm not racist but <overtly racist thing>". (I'm not calling you racist. I'm drawing a similarity between "I'm not X, but").
- tfehring 6y ago
  I'll go further than the parent commenter and say that I think Randian ideals are absurd and anyone who sincerely supports or buys into them is deranged. But I think the quote is interesting in this context because it's so obvious and so relevant that capitalism is resulting in the same dehumanization that Rand ascribes to socialism. To put it another way, it would be easy to imagine this variant of the quote being real (to be completely clear, it isn't): >> Capitalism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to the capitalists, that the only justification of his existence is his service to the capitalists, and that the capitalists may dispose of him in any way they please for the sake of their own profit. > -Karl Marx ...and that claim, unlike Rand's, would have been both accurate and relevant.
- deleted 6y ago
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krapp 6y ago
It doesn't describe what the doctrine of socialism is, the problems it claims to solve, what socialists actually believe, or the way socialist societies actually behave. And you could replace "socialism" with "capitalism", "society" with "employers" and "tribal, collective good" with "the benefit of the shareholders" and have an equally banal rebuttal, suggesting there's no specific insight behind it at all. But, those minor flaws aside, it is, indeed, a quote.

ebg13 6y ago

Hers is a perversion from aspect blindness that talks about rights in a vacuum without concern or care about harm. Right (i.e. morally correct) and the right (i.e. morally allowed) are often not the same. A person has the right to deny food to someone who is starving, but it makes the denier repugnant, and I would rather not have them in my society. Rand starts from the faulty premise that the two are the same and descends into madness from there. > I am not a follower of hers but... How are you both not a follower of hers and also driven to conjure quotes? That looks a lot like when someone says "I'm not racist but <overtly racist thing>". (I'm not calling you racist. I'm drawing a similarity between "I'm not X, but").

tfehring 6y ago
I'll go further than the parent commenter and say that I think Randian ideals are absurd and anyone who sincerely supports or buys into them is deranged. But I think the quote is interesting in this context because it's so obvious and so relevant that capitalism is resulting in the same dehumanization that Rand ascribes to socialism. To put it another way, it would be easy to imagine this variant of the quote being real (to be completely clear, it isn't): >> Capitalism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to the capitalists, that the only justification of his existence is his service to the capitalists, and that the capitalists may dispose of him in any way they please for the sake of their own profit. > -Karl Marx ...and that claim, unlike Rand's, would have been both accurate and relevant.
deleted 6y ago
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krapp 6y ago

It doesn't describe what the doctrine of socialism is, the problems it claims to solve, what socialists actually believe, or the way socialist societies actually behave. And you could replace "socialism" with "capitalism", "society" with "employers" and "tribal, collective good" with "the benefit of the shareholders" and have an equally banal rebuttal, suggesting there's no specific insight behind it at all. But, those minor flaws aside, it is, indeed, a quote.