4 ms·

It's not naive and historically ignorant, that is how science generally progresses. Paradigm shifts are rare by definition. Einstein was an obvious outlier, an

It's not naive and historically ignorant, that is how science generally progresses. Paradigm shifts are rare by definition. Einstein was an obvious outlier, and Wolfram is no Einstein. Your argument is used by every crackpot to justify their dismissal of the scientific process - because making progress that way is much harder than simply posting their theory on a primadonna blog and demanding the world come to them.

forgot_again 7y ago
I don't disagree with you that paradigm shifts are rare, but to dismiss then out of hand as simply not being the way we do science is indeed naive. We need both sorts of thinkers in science: those who want to make the important incremental improvements and those who seek entirely new ways of looking at problems.
- mellosouls 7y ago
  Yes we do - but it's important that we don't prioritise the rich, famous, connected businessmen and their internet fanboys trumpeting their vanity projects over the obscure patent clerks (and equivalent) doing the actual hard, brave work of letting their theories speak for themselves.
  - forgot_again 7y ago
    Of course Wolfram is rich and famous precisely because he has had a lot of good ideas. That's not to be discounted. It's also important to not immediately discount Wolfram's work simply because he is wealthy and successful and not a formal member of academia. However it seems that some are personally threatened or dislike Wolfram because of who he is which triggers a knee jerk reaction against his work. I am not an internet fanboy of Wolfram's, I'm only pushing back a bit against the idea that incremental progress upon the scientific mainstream is the only path forward.
    - mellosouls 7y ago
      No, to be clear, I wasn't including you in the internet fanboys. I and others are just suggesting Wolfram go through the same process as everybody else instead of using his power to subvert it. That isn't motivated by being threatened, just by a sense of fairness. As for his good ideas, absolutely - but they are all in business and unconnected to the grand theories he is now promoting - his prior physics experience is junior and long ago, and certainly doesn't warrant special treatment.
wesammikhail 7y ago
> Wolfram is no Einstein. Einstein was no Einstein either until he became Einstein. You shouldn´t dismiss a paradigm shifting idea just because those are rare. Otherwise, you might miss out on the real one when it comes along. Instead, examine the ideas presented critically and see where they lead you. nothing wrong with that. As for the crackpot part, science is filled with instances and examples of things that were considered to be crackpot ideas that proved to be not only true, but completely world changing. Have a little bit more humility please rather than being dismissive. Not saying that he´s right but it´s worth listening to the arguments made in case there is some truth to be found in them.
- mellosouls 7y ago
  Please don't insult me. The humility required is from Wolfram, and if he put his arguments in the appropriate forum, they would be listened to, but they would have to fight it out with all the others. It's certainly not worth listening to every pet theory posted online. They are ten a penny.

forgot_again 7y ago

I don't disagree with you that paradigm shifts are rare, but to dismiss then out of hand as simply not being the way we do science is indeed naive. We need both sorts of thinkers in science: those who want to make the important incremental improvements and those who seek entirely new ways of looking at problems.

mellosouls 7y ago
Yes we do - but it's important that we don't prioritise the rich, famous, connected businessmen and their internet fanboys trumpeting their vanity projects over the obscure patent clerks (and equivalent) doing the actual hard, brave work of letting their theories speak for themselves.
- forgot_again 7y ago
  Of course Wolfram is rich and famous precisely because he has had a lot of good ideas. That's not to be discounted. It's also important to not immediately discount Wolfram's work simply because he is wealthy and successful and not a formal member of academia. However it seems that some are personally threatened or dislike Wolfram because of who he is which triggers a knee jerk reaction against his work. I am not an internet fanboy of Wolfram's, I'm only pushing back a bit against the idea that incremental progress upon the scientific mainstream is the only path forward.
  - mellosouls 7y ago
    No, to be clear, I wasn't including you in the internet fanboys. I and others are just suggesting Wolfram go through the same process as everybody else instead of using his power to subvert it. That isn't motivated by being threatened, just by a sense of fairness. As for his good ideas, absolutely - but they are all in business and unconnected to the grand theories he is now promoting - his prior physics experience is junior and long ago, and certainly doesn't warrant special treatment.

wesammikhail 7y ago

> Wolfram is no Einstein. Einstein was no Einstein either until he became Einstein. You shouldn´t dismiss a paradigm shifting idea just because those are rare. Otherwise, you might miss out on the real one when it comes along. Instead, examine the ideas presented critically and see where they lead you. nothing wrong with that. As for the crackpot part, science is filled with instances and examples of things that were considered to be crackpot ideas that proved to be not only true, but completely world changing. Have a little bit more humility please rather than being dismissive. Not saying that he´s right but it´s worth listening to the arguments made in case there is some truth to be found in them.

mellosouls 7y ago
Please don't insult me. The humility required is from Wolfram, and if he put his arguments in the appropriate forum, they would be listened to, but they would have to fight it out with all the others. It's certainly not worth listening to every pet theory posted online. They are ten a penny.